Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In response to Oscar's query about who is keeping what, Frank says "I am also sorry, It would take to long to list what I have. Its also, not anyones business."

Step up, Frank, we'd like to know. Why just today (in the line right above your refusal) you referred to me, disparagingly, "At this time, that is all theory has I do not really know if he even has a monitor." Why is it your business to demand pictures and details from others, while saying that it's nobody's business which monitors you have and how many?

Step up, Frank. A keen businessfella like you ought to have a pretty good idea of what he has in stock. Crimminy, you advertise what you have available every time something hatches out there.

Step up, Frank. What are you afraid of? Geez, I'd be proud as punch to have all those Australian species!

Why he's had loads and loads of his pics posted on here, and just ask him.

How bout yours? Havent seen any pics, EVER from you.

hmmmmm
Link

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Gone Goannas
Varanus.net

That proves absolutely nothing. I have seen monitors even at FR's house with scars, etc, and hes doing fine. YOu guys think Sam is lying about field observations? Go read his glauerti-glebo paper. DO you have any idea what it takes to get a scien. paper published? It is reviewed over and over, literature checked by reviewers, stats, checked by reviewers. People like the late D. King who know these things check it out. Who cares if Sam hasn't shown a pic. When was the last time I showed one? I get questioned all the time. Let it be. Sam is a field biologist with great knowledge of wild monitors. FR does stuff in captivity and knows alot about wild stuff too. Its all good stuff for people to read, not bicker over like children.

It does show something though, really it does.

Thats the monitor he keeps, and probably his best pic.

more important than the picture is the text that accompanies it. Explains a bit about whats going on...I hope you can see that too. I had monitors with scars too, I do not care about the scar, everything else is the problem with the picture. Maybe he should show a good picture for us, so we know what we are doing wrong? Thanks for your input, it helped me a lot.

Jefe
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Gone Goannas
Varanus.net

Hi Jeff, Please understand, we are not disputing anything Sam does in the field, whether I agree with it or not.

This is entirely about what he says about captive monitors and captive monitors only. I know, I do not need to remind you, this is a captive monitor forum. There are also, academic/scientific forums as well.

While I may think some much of our captive results is reflected with wild monitors, I am not going there and forcing my theories on those forums.

Please try and understand this. cheers FR

Thats cool Frank. I understand this is a captive forum - so ehy all the talk about field stuff - looks like your boys are doing the discrediting thing. And one pic of a single monitors butt says nothing about one's husbandry. Nobody spoke up when AI showed a shot of an amel sav on blue gravel to bring out his colors. Sam wasn't even in the country for that. He is simply giving an opinion like the rest of us, no harm done.

Please keep this strait, The young men who posted that, are not my boys, I have one boy and hes out playing music. And hes a turtle breeder and thinks all of us are nuts. hahahahahahahaha

Also, I did not post that pic, for the same reasons you mentioned. One picture is of no meaning. It would be helpful if he explained how the croc got to be in such condition, but thats not the point either.

You surely understand, we cannot even start a conversation about methods and results without, said methods and results. He has not expressed his methods or his results.

You also understand, its not about which is better. Its merely about why he thinks or says, our methods are so bad, I surely will put up 100 individual monitors that are in my care, up against anybodys using any method. I am not saying mine are better, but surely as good. I am not even counting what they have produced, just the monitors overall appearance and health.

The base of this little spat is Sam attacking the methods/results many of us use, including you. He only bases that attack on opinion, not even theory. He surely needs to support his arguement, am I wrong about that? Thanks FR

David is right, we are nuts. I don't think Sam is telling any of us we're wrong, I think he's just saying its a bit different from nature. From what I have seen, I agree. Its just an opinion, nothing to worry about.

Scroll down and read, hes attacking for, more then one monitor in a cage. Any monitors that multi-clutches(you on our team now) lite bulbs on 24/7, and not using UV bulbs, and more. Thank you FR

Actually, I was wondering about the phillips lights. I am not attacking you, really interested. HAve you tested them for uv output? I know many of their brand have usable UV. I think Pete tested it. Also, I think supplementing is like UV. Just a comment form someone on his own team who is interested in monitor stuff. Also, I don't see Sam's words as an attack any more than I see anyone else's comments. Thanks

What insights have you learned from Sam's ARM post that have directly influenced your monitors? Are you keeping any monitors right now? Thanks

I have done many monitors in many ways. I have kept them separate and cooled them. I have kept them in pairs and warm. Both bred and produced healthy offspring (mainly ackies - both available types). All were kept with UV or supplements. The one time I did glauerti without UV and no supplements, she had good eggs and a very bad case of the shivers from lack of calcium. She survived and produced more clutches (all died in incubation at a friend's house)although I sild her soon after laying so I could move to Oz. I was on a team (Australia Zoo and Melbourne Zoo) that produced a number of species of Oz monitors when I lived in OZ. I do not have any monitors right now as I travel for up to 6 months a year and have a new child. I also do alot of local fieldwork and have a few pairs of snakes that I can barely keep a handle on. I am also remodeling a house by myself. When I sell this one and get my new one fixed up with a herp building, I will get more monitors (and other herps). I have kept nearly all of the available species, except for many of the ones newerr to captivity (griseus, etc)and have been into monitors since I was very young. I have also seen and photographed many species in the wild. Hope this helps, thanks,
Jeff

Thanks alot Jeff! Still wondering what that female might have gone through, wondering what may caused her problems. It's all very interesting, be great when you start keeping some again, good luck!

I could care less what UV content those bulbs or the regular round bulbs have(they had them before they were moved into these waterland tubs. There is no need to check them as they have produced wonderful monitors. The old result thing.

And that is entirely the point, All bulbs emitt some sort of UV. All I have said is, The extra money spend on Special Reptile UV bulbs is better spend on a larger cage or more food. Or even a night at a kareoke(sp) bar. hahahahahahaha FR

See what happens when we ask polite questions, we find out new things. I would still be interested in the philips bulbs (u know, I am a scientist, hahahaha). I have some waterlands waiting for glauerti, cool things. Too bad the tops suck.

any insight you learned out on the field that could help us keepers?

Give me a direwct question ral, and maybe I can answer it.

Aww, I guess you don't remember when the same troll posted the same picture 7 months ago on your own site, and where I explained how the animal got that way while its care was being overseen by my university veterinarian, while I was in Australia.

You remember that? Quit misrepresenting things, bucko!

So how do your crocs look? Any pics, bucko?

n/p

?

Back to monitors.

Isn't it possible that the monitor was kept so crappy when you were away that it couldn't have healed properly? The active UV may have had nothing to do with healing, just additional heat.
Keeping a croc monitor on pea gravel is a bad idea, especially one that is sick or injured.

Isn't it also possible that Jeff was just trying to poke holes in the theary?

Hahahahahahaha , that croc is the bomb! Near death and all

G'day Ral / Ra_Tzu,

I have seen a lot of photos of his animals. He has a six foot long male salvadorii that is only nine months old, beautiful beast - and a girl to go along with, around five feet. Condyle and Batface.

Additionally, I've gotten a lot of photos from his travels around Jabiru and the rest of the NT, including dozens upon dozens of maps, notes and the like detailing his time and findings there. He also shared a lot of his experiences in Tropical North Queensland as well as all about Northern and Coastal Western Australia.

Sam also had permits to 'interfere with wildlife' while he was there - it is a big offense to do so without proper permits, which may be why Frank does not post many photos of his experiences there? Ripping rocks apart for herps and posting photos of the action online is a big no-no, especially sans permit.

Just my experiences.

Clay

G'day Clay, maybe you could post some of those pics. You see talking bout pics doesn't make em so. I'd love to see um'.
Thanks,
Lukeskywalka

Two things Clay, if he is showing his stuff in other places, then that shows his intend is to discredit and not to be helpful.

Second, your implying what you did about me is, slanderous and illegal, not in Oz, but right here in america. You posting that in a public place is indeed grounds for a law suit, I would be very careful if I was you. Falling for other peoples halucinations may indeed land you in trouble. So Please think before you post. Thank You, FR

Hey Frank, what's illegal about sharing photos and experiences with friends?

You have bragged quite enough about the second matter, mate.

?

np

How about answer the same type of questions from JT, he also asked nicely.

JT's post,
Posted by: JT at Sun Aug 8 20:58:52 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

Jeff

Thanks for your time, Cheers FR

Well, I've decided ya'll aint gonna be much help for the next few days or weeks so I'm just gonna put my monitors in dixie cups and hope for the best. Anyone know where I can buy catfood wholesale? lol

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

Haha, shop around.