Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i was wondering what would happen if these 2 were to meet? would one eat the other? how about caging the 2 together? i know a lot of you think caging 2 snakes is a bad thing but I was just wondering what would happen if you were to cage a leucistic texas rat and a mexican black king together. i think it would be a cool contrast of white and black mixed together. not saying i'm gonna do it, just wondering.

thanks,
alex

Out of all the combos that is the worst.The king will eat the rat.

thought i read that somewhere before, just was wondering. thanks though.

alex

That texas leucistic would be a yummy midnight snack for your kingsnake. Kingsnakes and milksnakes are both cannibalistic snakes. Their diet includes multiple cold blooded animals, such as lizards, as well as other snakes.

I'd give the duo a day.
-----
The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown

Battling ignorance one stupid person at a time.

Current snakes:
1) Female Licorice Stick Black Ratsnake - Lola
2) Neonate Black Rat Snake (Het for Lic Stk's) - Frankie

Soon to arrive:
1) Male/Female Bairdi pair!!!! (Need name ideas)

>>That texas leucistic would be a yummy midnight snack for your kingsnake. Kingsnakes and milksnakes are both cannibalistic snakes. Their diet includes multiple cold blooded animals, such as lizards, as well as other snakes.
>>
>>I'd give the duo a day.
>>-----
>>The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown
>>
>>Battling ignorance one stupid person at a time.
>>
>>Current snakes:
>>1) Female Licorice Stick Black Ratsnake - Lola
>>2) Neonate Black Rat Snake (Het for Lic Stk's) - Frankie
>>
>>Soon to arrive:
>>1) Male/Female Bairdi pair!!!! (Need name ideas)

It depends on the age and size of both snakes. If both are adults then the rat snake could be too big for the king snake to eat. What is the rule? One snake can only eat another if it`s 3/4th of it`s own body length. So a 5 foot king IS NOT going to eat a 6 foot rat snake.
-----
Like I said; I`m Gonna Getcha Good!

Really?Im sure snakes read and know that for a fact.I could throw a 3 pound rat in with any of my corns and they would try to eat it.They would die trying but they would try.So why temp fate?

"One snake can only eat another if it`s 3/4th of it`s own body length. So a 5 foot king IS NOT going to eat a 6 foot rat snake."

It may or may not be able to eat the ratsnake, but a 5 foot common King could kill a 6 foot ratsnake faster then you could go grab a coke & make popcorn. For that matter the King wouldn't have to be 5 foot. I wouldn't put a 6 foot rat in with a 2 1/2 foot Getula King. Check back a few days ago on an earlier post I made on the Kingsnake forum that has a link that shows a California King killing a Coachwhip, where the coachwhip is about 3 times larger then the King. Getula Kings are powerful critters no doubt.

Steve

>>"One snake can only eat another if it`s 3/4th of it`s own body length. So a 5 foot king IS NOT going to eat a 6 foot rat snake."
>>
>>It may or may not be able to eat the ratsnake, but a 5 foot common King could kill a 6 foot ratsnake faster then you could go grab a coke & make popcorn. For that matter the King wouldn't have to be 5 foot. I wouldn't put a 6 foot rat in with a 2 1/2 foot Getula King. Check back a few days ago on an earlier post I made on the Kingsnake forum that has a link that shows a California King killing a Coachwhip, where the coachwhip is about 3 times larger then the King. Getula Kings are powerful critters no doubt.
>>
>>Steve

Coachwhips may be longer but they are not a very thick or powerful snake. In fact they are built for speed. I can`t see a 5 ft. king attacking a 6 ft. plus black rat. If both snakes are in good health the adult black rat is longer thicker and just as strong as any king. Haybe the king would attack, I just cannot picture it over powering a larger heavier black rat. Both are constrictors and I have not ever heard of smaller kings overpowering larger black rats. I do agree that you should not house kings with other snakes. Don`t misunderstand me. I have also seen many corn-king hybirds so they don`t always eat or attack every other snake they see.
-----
Like I said; I`m Gonna Getcha Good!

Actually in one of my older herp books there is a photo of a nice X-ray of a Fla king that had eaten a snake longer than it'self. That is found in Ditmar's SNAKES OF THE WORLD.

I did observe a seven inch long speckled King on my window sill (after my dog knocked over a few cages) in a battle with a nine inch Red Ratsnake it had grasped by the tail as it was going through a hole in my window screen. The king managed to drag the Red in and then killed it and ate it with no ill effects (to the king).

Frank
-----
"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

>>Actually in one of my older herp books there is a photo of a nice X-ray of a Fla king that had eaten a snake longer than it'self. That is found in Ditmar's SNAKES OF THE WORLD.
>>
>>I did observe a seven inch long speckled King on my window sill (after my dog knocked over a few cages) in a battle with a nine inch Red Ratsnake it had grasped by the tail as it was going through a hole in my window screen. The king managed to drag the Red in and then killed it and ate it with no ill effects (to the king).
>>
>>Frank
>>-----
>>"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."
Your seven inch king and nine inch rat story is not that hard understand. Here it is a matter of inches. When someone turns around and says a 2 and a half foot king can kill a 6ft. rat snake that is what I have I have problem in believing.
-----
Like I said; I`m Gonna Getcha Good!

if the King was hungry, it would definately attack the Rat Snake, regardless of it being a foot smaller. Speaking from experience...I had a 3-3.5 foot W/C Eastern King that after a couple weeks had not eaten. The day I was going to return it where I found it, a friend brought over a Black Rat Snake that was brought into their work. Since I was already letting the King go I put the 4-4.5 foot Black Rat in the same tank until I was going to leave. The King came alive and went after him. The Black Rat knew instinctively to get away and kept trying to keep his head away from the King. The King tried to constrict him but I separated them and let the Black Rat go. Oddly enough, that must have stimulated his appetite because he ate mice fine after that day.

>>if the King was hungry, it would definately attack the Rat Snake, regardless of it being a foot smaller. Speaking from experience...I had a 3-3.5 foot W/C Eastern King that after a couple weeks had not eaten. The day I was going to return it where I found it, a friend brought over a Black Rat Snake that was brought into their work. Since I was already letting the King go I put the 4-4.5 foot Black Rat in the same tank until I was going to leave. The King came alive and went after him. The Black Rat knew instinctively to get away and kept trying to keep his head away from the King. The King tried to constrict him but I separated them and let the Black Rat go. Oddly enough, that must have stimulated his appetite because he ate mice fine after that day.

Again as in my reply to another poster this is not a 2.5 king taking out a six foot black rat. I don`t know what part of the country some of you are from but here in WV. we have very large black rats. 6ft. plus is very common and I have caught and measure a couple 7 plus ones. These are not skinny racer types but powerful constrictors. Some AT least 1.5 as thick as any adult king that I have seen. We also have both kings and black rats in WV and I have never heard anyone state that the kings are a danger to the black rats.
-----
Like I said; I`m Gonna Getcha Good!

Your argument is retarded.Feel free to bring your snakes over bro.I can teach you an ugly leason.If your smart it will only take once.

>>Your argument is retarded.Feel free to bring your snakes over bro.I can teach you an ugly leason.If your smart it will only take once.
>>

The only thing retarded is your post. You were not specific as to what to bring over. Are you now going to tell me a 5ft. king can over power a 10ft plus red tail boa? If so I will leave you with your "king snake delusions."
-----
Like I said; I`m Gonna Getcha Good!

np

I agree Black Rats do get very large and you being from WV you have the L.g. Nigra (Black Kings) living in your state. I myself might have a hard time thinking a four foot black king would take down a six foot black ratsnake, though I still think one could. Having said that, L.g. Nigra are no where near the size/girth of Eastern & Florida Kings. There are not many North American snakes, with the exception of an Indigo, that could take on a very large Eastern or Florida King. A seven foot black rat is a very big serpent, but it would be no match for a five foot Eastern or Florida King. Anyway, check out the link of the Cal. King and the coachwhip below. What is amazing is that this is a very large coachwhip and a very small cal. King. It is estimated that the coachwhip has a mass five times greater then the king.
http://www.arts.arizona.edu/herp/duel in the desert.pdf

I live in the Northeast now and yes we have big Black Rats and not too much to bother them here. I lived down south for a number of years and we had very large Black Rats, Yellow, and the Greenish intergrades. Like Steve said, the Easterns can get almost as long and a healthy Eastern the same length will have a lot more mass to it than a Rat Snake. I guarantee if you put a Black Rat in with a similar sized (even smaller) Eastern King it would be in a major panic! I have seen this many times...as an example I purchased a Yellow Rat that was CB. The snake moved with me to South Carolina and and eventually reached about 5 feet. One day I caught a 4 foot Eastern King and while cleaning the cage of the Yellow Rat I placed it temporarily in with the Eastern (I too thought since it was bigger and also a strong constrictor it would be fine) It was in there for 10 seconds and it shot out of the cage like a rocket....They know!!!

>>I agree Black Rats do get very large and you being from WV you have the L.g. Nigra (Black Kings) living in your state. I myself might have a hard time thinking a four foot black king would take down a six foot black ratsnake, though I still think one could. Having said that, L.g. Nigra are no where near the size/girth of Eastern & Florida Kings. There are not many North American snakes, with the exception of an Indigo, that could take on a very large Eastern or Florida King. A seven foot black rat is a very big serpent, but it would be no match for a five foot Eastern or Florida King. Anyway, check out the link of the Cal. King and the coachwhip below. What is amazing is that this is a very large coachwhip and a very small cal. King. It is estimated that the coachwhip has a mass five times greater then the king.
>>http://www.arts.arizona.edu/herp/duel in the desert.pdf

Which is the largest king in the USA? If the coachwhip is that much larger could the king really eat it? How does a king know what is too big for him to handle? What is the REAL key here? I have trouble believing a king is so much stronger than a large black rat, or is it more of the king`s natural fighting skills against other snakes?
-----
Like I said; I`m Gonna Getcha Good!

From what I have seen, the largest kings seem to be the Southern examples of the Chain L.g.getula at over six and one half feet...and some of the Fla intergrades. I have seen a Brooks that was 6'2".

A comparison of 2' or more was not the criteria.
My response came when someone suggested that a snake could only eat another snake up to 3/4ths of it's body length which is wrong.

An 8' rat snake I think would be too big a meal for a king. However, it would not stop a 6' King from killing it (yes kings are that much more powerful. Think Retic vs Anaconda, with the king being the anaconda)

Florida Kings are not the smartest thing in the world (I have collected and kept hundreds through the years as I live in their range). Kings tend to grab first and figure out the rest later. But they are perfect crushing machines, so it is brute power vs the more skillfull but weaker ratsnake. I think it has more to do with the Kingsnake having a huge appetite and not much brain going with it. We joke down here about the kings being the "Hound Dogs" of the snake world.

The only snake threat to a large king is the Indigo. And that is only because Indigos have amazing jaw power.

Frank
-----
"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Excellent point Frank. I don't think a 6 foot king is going to be able to eat an 8 foot ratsnake, but without a doubt, would be able to kill it. I've had a couple of Cal. Kings in the past latch on to my hand and constrict my arm. You'd think they would realize they can't eat something 50 times there size, and they will not let go, had to use a little running water to get him off me. Like you said, a hungery king will bite first, ask later. Kings are killing machines that use brute power, and along with that brute power they also use very good constricting technique, and they are the best at doing it.

Steve

>>>> I have trouble believing a king is so much stronger than a large black rat, or is it more of the king`s natural fighting skills against other snakes?
>>-----

Now, you are getting it. That is what they do. That is why they are the "king" of snakes.King snakes attack, kill and eat rattle snakes and they don't hesitate if the rattle snake is larger then they are. And remember. Rattle snakes are about twice as big around as any king or rat snake the same length.
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

I raise Kingsnakes...and what I see in comparison with a rat,corn, milk or any colubrid is this ...their attitude.
If you look a King in the eye...you "see" dominance and confidence...that is their edge...they "know" they are Kings.
They can be gentle pets, but when it comes to food. They hit HARD and fast. An adult has no fear really...they hunt, they kill, they eat.
Just my opinion

Nancy
-----
Some of my best friends are snakes
Snakes Rule