Reptile & Amphibian Forums

There is right now an ad on the classifieds that is selling 2004 Kingsnakes (I wont mention what kind). They are rather inexpensive and look nice. I emailed the seller and asked about locality and background if any on these animals as nothing about them was mentioned in the ad except what kind of snake they were. The follwing message was sent to me

Keith,
The BLANK Kingsnake juveniles I have for sale were produced by a friend in NY. I acquired them several weeks ago. He does not have any locality info. They come from an Albino BLANK Kingsnake project he has. The breeding group is fairly large. So the snakes I have for sale are more than likely a mix of localities. I have both normal pattern and abberrant pattern juveniles available. Male/Female Pairs are available ($xx.00 shipped). Your choice of pattern. If you are interested, let me know and I will send you my payment info. Thanks for your interest.

It was nice that the guy offered up the Albino info but what if I never asked ? would that info have been made available ? The moral is ask lots of questions and if you dont get answers you dont like dont buy them. I just think if these animals came from an Albino project that should have been noted on the original ad. I know alot of people who arent expirienced would maybe not think to ask and get something and eventually pass unknown mutations along to other unsuspecting herpers. Again folks buyer beware !

Keith
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I was looking through the classifieds a few weeks ago, and in the first 20 ads I saw several mis-identified snakes. I saw one ad for a "het-albino thayeri". I went to the dealer's website where he goes into detail about his experience in the business and the claim that he would never misrepresent a snake. I sent him an e-mail saying that all albino, or het-albino for that matter, thayeri are really thayeri/ruthveni hybrids.
His response basically said that anyone who knows anything about albino thayeri knows that they are hybrids, and he didn't feel that it was necessary to state what was already obvious.
For those of us who prefer to buy pure blood, or locality animals it is "buyer beware". I personally won't buy a supposedly "pure" snake from someone who sells hybrids. I really have to question whether they are dedicated to keeping their lines pure. It takes a little research to find people that really care about the purity of their animals, and who really care about the species they sell. Do we need an AKC for snakes?
P.S. No comments on the fact that all domestic dog breeds are really hybrids please!

Do we need an AKC for snakes?>>>

AKC = American Kingsnake Club?
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Lloyd Heilbrunn

Palm Beach Gardens, Fl.

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I wrote to the same seller and also asked about locality. I was told they were from a breeder in New York and the locality wasn't known. I wasn't told anything about the albino project. I could have bought them and never known. Just goes to show you gotta do your homework and it's best to deal with those you know.

Todd

not sure if i understand ya keith? most folks do advertise if animals are hets, 100%,66%,50%,possible.,etc, as in most cases makes the said animal worth more,,and i personally feel that its allways the buyers responsibility to ask about genetics,mutations,etc,esp. if being aquired for breeding purposes, its also IMHO the sellers responsibility to be HONEST in representation and explanation of genetic line of all animals sold, but just cuz they are from an albino project what are the het%'s direct100%,66,50,etc,etc, because taken those factors abinism is a recessive trait and dosnt neccisarily mean you will get albino's, really it depends on the het%'s, but from your add he did seem responsive to all questions asked, well im ramblin now,,,maybe i just dont get what your sayin,,,,peace
thomas,,, heres my snow fla.king from fliptop he got it direct from glades, i as well as others beleive its got something else in it maybe cali who knows, my plan is to breed it to "pure l.g.fla and line those for a few generations and eventually breed them to be true snow l.g.fla., whats yr. theory on that? can it be done? or is everything produced from that animals genes even generations later will be mutt getula? jsut curious and all in fun
thomas

True he did give me the info and I said so in my post but I was only using him as an example of how when you advertise something if it possibly is a het you should divulge that info. For instance maybe you hate Albinos for whatever reason and you buy a pair of Kings from this guy without knowing they were hets (because maybe you didnt think to ask). Now everytime you breed the animals that you pumped mice into for 3 years you get exactly what you dont like. Yeah its true het animals usually command extra money but there is a stigma attached to this Albino King subspecies so I dont know if they sell all that well ??? Maybe Im wrong. I agree its the buyers responsibility to ask and that was the reason I made the post. It was to let the newbies know that you have to ask questions. At the same time I think its the sellers responsibility to give out that info. I didnt single this guy out Thomas I didnt use his name nor did I even mention what the snake was so as to take the personal attack out of it towards this breeder.

Keith
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thanks keith i know ya didnt name the guy or the snake i understand and agree buyers should ask questions and sellers should HONESTLY answer them as well as divuldge any genetic info(het.,albino,hypo,etc,etc,)on the animals he/she sells,
now howsabout my other ? in the post? about my snow fla.king from fliptop, if i breed that to a "pure"sorry the term just cracks me up )florida king, how should i represent the babies?, lets say i do and all come out looking like ("PURE")l.g.floridana. are they?if not what are they?mutts? just curious to your answer ,,,,,,,thomas

I dont think Im gonna sway you to my way of thinking nor are you to yours so I think we will have to agree to disagree. I wish there were some more genetic work being done with Getula though. How is that big female Eastern doing from our impending trade ?

Keith
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she is doin fine im fattening her up for ya,,,,,,
now i dont want to sway ya, just asking what ya think, its obvious this snow fla.king i got from fliptop has something else in it, now glades says its pure floridana but ,,,well,,, anyways,,,its my guess caliking but who knows?but im sure you agree its not pure floridana, so w/that,,, if i breed it to a pure fla.king which i plan to do in'05 what would you consider the babies to be?then if line bred those for a couple of generations would i eventually end up w/some "pure" floridana?
or is it your opinion that all will be "mutt" getula?
basically im asking ya if a mutation such as albino,hypo,snow,etc is brought into a breeding project via another ssp can that other ssp. be bred-out and the target ssp be bred true again except now w/the mutation?im also meaning this within the confines of the GETULA ssp.group no cornXmilk or milkXking or cornXking i beleive those to be MUTTS,,,,,,,, hope that made sense,,,,thomas