Reptile & Amphibian Forums

boa classified. I hope Im not overstepping my ground but I have seen these snakes on here before offered earlier by somebody else. As most of you know I am really into these Nics. And it just rubs me the wrong way when I see these guys. Maybe Im overreacting. I almost hope I am. The Nicaraguan Boas are absolutely stunning by themselves why would someone mix them with an argentine, I myself see no advantage. The biggest reason this upsets me is because somewhere down the line and especially if the market for the Nics continue the way they are now, Someone will try to sell the offspring whether they are the F2 or F3s as hypo Nics. And that just burns my buns. Now to my point, I want to know what everyone else thinks. I dont care if you agree with me or not, I just want to hear everyones opinions on this. I am just curious as to what the rest of you all think, also is it just me or does $2200 for a pair of mutts sound a little steep, then again look at the Charpondros. A whole other story. If you dont want to post your reply feel free to e-mail me directly. Sorry to vent on all of you, just having a grumpy day I guess.

Thanks
Bob

I can see the dilema with this particular cross. Nic hypos are what, like $2000 a pair? Essentially brand new to the market. Vin Russo has some killer Nic hypos.. wow, wow, wow! Such great color diversity. Then look at Argentines. I think a nice Argentine is plain awesome. However, the market on argys is really crappy, $100-$200. Most folks, without patience, cross-breed to make thinks happen quickly, ie money. We've really opened a Pandoras Box with these crosses. In that, eventually we won't be able to tell the crosses from the pure strains. If "Joe Public" is willing to pay that much for crosses, there's not much that can be done to stop it. Other than a boa registry for pure strains, someones got to pick this up!
As far as color/pattern varients go, I'm not sure I care anymore. They are all freaks anyway.. why not knock it up another notch.. I guess. I never thought I would, but this is the 1st season I've bought any boa color/pattern morph. Before I only bought locality BCC. They were animals that an archetypical mold could be built from. Now I see these Hogg x Peruvians... Barf. You know what they say, or maybe I'm the only one that says this-
WE ARE PURISTS LIVING IN A MORPHERS WORLD.
Later-
Matt Schubarth
Pet Nebula
2100 Stephens #116
Missoula, Montana 59801
406 541 9929

I don't get it. Hypo Nics are imported all the time. Many can barely tell the dif between a hypo and a normal Nic. Why all the sudden are they more expensive than the hypo Columbians that represent years of selective breeding to improve their look?

I have noticed the same trend and I think it may have to do mainly with the trend of trying to keep pure locality morphs. I imagine they will drop quite a bit in value in the not to distant future since the quality of them are so poor in 99% of the ones you see on the market.. But then again I could be wrong..
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Randall L Turner Jr.
www.aircapitalconstrictors.com

My opinion only:

Argentines are AWESOME boas all by themselves. Many people appreciate them for what they are and their inherent natural beauty. In the wild they are endangered.

People cross them with the hope of creating something new. There seems to be a never ending THIRST from many new and some old hobbyists to provide something NEW. As long as the market is there, soneone will fill it to make money, and to produce snakes that look "Pretty" regardless of whatever the long term consequences are to this hobby or captive populations.

Thats reality.

Personally, I wouldnt buy them, but you cant force other people not to, it is after all their choice. Id much rather have a nice highly contrasted Argie than a cross, even with infusions of red color. Pretty? Of course. But not my cup of tea.

Each to his own.

Fred Albury

:

lol u know its funny .. i been out of snakes 4 awhile now and im coming back now after 5 years and seeing some of the most rediculous prices on snakes ive ever seen for silly little traits that theyve always had imo .and just made em a bit more extreme and added thousands of dollars to the price tag .. i will agree some of the new morphs are awsome and well worth it .. but some ive seen are just downright normal animals with a little something that isnt worth thousands to the tag !! this is just my opinion of coarse .. but seeing the price tags on some of these animals nowadays makes me wonder about the money id have now sellin some of the animals that in my opinion were just average to normal in that species.. dont wanna put anyone down but .. some of these animals are just normal with a little bit less red , or a little bit less black or whatever the deal is and most are gonna produce normals anyways !! just my $.02

....and your right! Eventually their offspring might be sold as something they are not.

Chris O

I'm with you Bob. I've invested many thousands of dollars in pure Nics both farmed and a cb pair of F2 hypos from Vinnie. I believe they are siblings to the super hypos Vin pproduced. I for one don't want to see them crossed with any other species. I don't even believe in Salmontines. As you're probably aware a very well known breeder has crossed a type 2 anery Nic with an albino Colombian in an effort to get snows. The sad part is he sold one of the anery babies as a Nic type 2 and never mentioned it was a Colombian cross. The only way this person found out is the breeder slipped up stating the animal may be possible het albino so the buyer asked him outright if what he bought was a cross. After the fact the seller admitted it was. This is the kind of thing that really gets me upset. Particularly when this person is reviled and treated as a God by most boa enthusiasts. Can you say Motley?

Mistakes happen and when certin people are able to run thier business problem free then and only then should they be able to question others. i personally have dealt with the breeder whom was refferd to in the last post and if the above situation did happen(which im not 100% certinit did happend as described)im sure that the unnamed dealer surely didnt do it intentionally and would have bent over backwards to make it right. he is litereally the nicest guy i have met in this industry you will never meet a nicer guy
john peraza

So what you're saying is I don't have the right to make comment on deceptive business practices that can affect the purity of genetic lines? What transpired in the transaction mentioned above was told directly to me by a person that purchased a type 2 anery Nicaraguan from said breeder for $550 to which I commented that this was very cheap. He then told me he suspected it was a cross because in conversation with the breeder (after the purchase was already completed) it was mentioned that this animal could also be possibly het albino. He knew there was no way it could be a 100% true anery Nic if it was possible het albino BECAUSE THERE ARE NO KNOWN ALBINO NICS with the exception of t ! He then sent me pictures of the animal and it was very obvious to me that there was no way it was 100% Nicaraguan. The buyer then contacted the breeder and asked him outright if the animal he had purchased was a cross and was told YES.
Now I'm not saying the breeder wouldn't have taken the animal back if the buyer had objected or that he isn't a "nice guy" and I wasn't trying to "mud sling". My point is if a well known "reputable breeder" can knowingly sell an animal as a type 2 anery and without mention of it being a cross, how can one honestly expect anyone else to not contaminate existing lines? I take this as a very serious ethical violation and NOT A MISTAKE. Some people, albeit the unethical ones, don't recognize the difference and this is exactly the point I was trying to make. Sorry you missed it.

I for one do not know why anyone would cross hogg islands to anything else or ball pythons to Angolan pythons what the helll is the point of that cross? that one gets me the most.
I can see BCI to BCC but when you start crossing everything into everything else it will destroy the purity of true locals.
But i am guilty of crossing myself but not by choice I truely believe that an albino hogg island will eventually emerge from hog islands without the introduction of an albino Colombian, but like anything else people are bored with natural beauty and are always trying to improve on it( or they think they are improving on it)
Don't get me wrong I like the looks of some crosses but don't respect them as much as the pure deal.

JMHO

Nick Gancraz
Boa's Ark c.b.r.

was selling the crosses. Apparently I was overstepping my grounds and never meant to slander or make bad of his name. He really seems like a nice guy. Here is my response to him e-mail:

I very much respect and appreciate your response. And I completely understand and was not trying to slander you. I understand where you are coming from and appreciate your contacting me. I will post an apology on the forum, because I never meant to offend. Just trying to get a conversation going about these snakes. Let me add that they are some really nice looking snakes as well, just not what I would choose to do provided I only had one hypo Nic. I am entitled to my own opinion arent I! I just fear, and I believe that I touched this point on the forum, that not you but the purchaser of these snakes who produce offspring could very well pawn them off as 100% Nic hypos, if not in the F1 but the definitely the F2 generation. That was all I was saying. Being a small time breeder myself and nowhere near as much experience as you have (since Im only 29 years old) I was only testing the waters sort of speak. And now knowing the professionalism you possess I wish I would have contacted you first, but then I would not know what the general public thought about said subject. Good day and good luck on all future endeavors.

Bob McPHee