Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hey all! I was wondering if it is a good idea to let go of my turtle and release her into the wild again. I know she will have to adjust but she seems to hate me and everything I do. Her tub is to small and she always messes up her tank. We don't get along that great. Don't get me wrong, I love her with all my heart but sometimes I think she will be happier free. I want to know what all you think! Thanks!
*Erica and Maya*

The general rule seems to be NOT to return your turt to the wild.
(unless maybe you just found it in the wild recently and simply want to return it to its natural habitat).
1. Turtles in capitivity may not be equipped to survive in the wild
2. You may be introducing harmful pathogens into the wild

I am sure others have more detailed reasons.
One thing puzzles me. The reasons seem a little strange. If the tub is too small, why not get a bigger one. Turtles are messy and will dirty they living areas. Its natural. What does it mean that you do not get along well? I am not sure that a turt has that level of development where its says "I don't like you". I have two turts. One is very friendly by nature and "seems to like me". The other is more shy and unfriendly. I treat them the same so its prob their nature more than a conscious decision to not like me. If you find that you can't take care of it, you can try to find it a new home.

I think the real question to ask is How old are you?

If you dont want your turtle anymore, instead of releasing it into the wild, put it in a plastic container, and put it in the freezer. Its a nice, free way to show your turtle how little you care for it, without endangering the wild turtle population.
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Studies show freezing is the most painful way you could possibly kill a reptile, due to the metabolism of a turtle they survive for quite a long time, as ice builds up in their veins.
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that is bs. Yes, turtles can withstand cold for a while, since they hibernate under water below the ice. Freezing is not an inhumane or painful way to euthanize. The only people that tell you that are the people you pay to do it for you. First the reptile will go into hibernation, then die in its sleep. Thats all, nothing more. If you think your turtle might survive for a couple of hours in the freezer, then leave it in there for 6 weeks if itll make you feel better.
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thats so wrong. How could anyone do that? Give it to spca if u don't want it at least geez

I agree. Freezing is totally inhumane, any way of killing an animal because it is unwanted is cruel. I thought iturnrocks was being sarcastic about freezing!! Listen, jada123, try getting along with your turtle for a few more months, or even weeks. If you can't afford it, or its too much of a hassle for you, try and find it a home. The least you can do for him is do that. Put an ad in the newspaper or up at petstores, kingsnake, etc. Releasing him into the wild should be a last resort, but at least you are giving him a chance to maybe live!!

Yeh, releasing in the wild only as a last resort. Now that was sarcastic. Releasing any animal to the wild is wrong, and probably illegal. Not that any law enforcement would know or care. But you are not looking at the big picture. Killing an animal seems so cruel doesnt it? How about releasing an animal into the wild which results in the agonizing death of hundreds of wild turtles. Now who's the animal hater.

Euthanizing is a last resort of course, but it comes right before releasing it to the wild. Im not suggesting everyone start freezing their turtles, but if you respect the animal so little that you think of it as nothing more than a hassle, then I imagine the turtle is unhappy with you too. I take in all sorts of unwanted reptiles, and try to find them good homes. I also am concerned about wildlife and do my part to ensure its survival. If you must release your animal to the wild, please take it to Florida and do it there. The ecosystem is so screwed up from everybody releasing their animals there that we might as well condemn Florida, and fence it off from the rest of the country. If you feel like a good long read, try finishing this post and find out what happens when you release unwanted animals into the wild.

Since Florida was first colonized, several thousand foreign plant and animal species have established themselves there, as have hundreds of animal and plant disease agents. Many of these species such as crop plants have been beneficial, while others, such as most pets and ornamental plants have been relatively harmless. At the same time, it is estimated that over 15 percent of non-native species have become invaders, causing widespread problems that can prove serious and exceedingly costly. All parts of the U.S. now host troublesome introduced species, but not all states are affected equally. Particularly hard hit is Florida, owing to its geographic location, mild climate, its reliance on tourism and the fact that it serves as a hub for international trade. In Florida, about 25 percent of plant and animal groups are not native.

The cost to taxpayers of introduced species in Florida was estimated in a 1993 report of the Congressional Office of Technology Assesment, to range from hundreds of millions through billions of dollars over the past few decades. These estimates do not include effects on native ecosystems, such as extinction of native species that are of no immediate economic concern.
The best documentation related to this subject relates to costs to agriculture. About a fourth of this country's gross national product is lost each year to foreign plant pests and the costs of controlling them. In the case of cotton. The total accumulated cost of the boll weevil, originally from Mexico, in the 1890's now exceeds 50 billion dollars.
The costs of introduced pathogens and parasites to human health and the health of economically important species have never been comprehensively estimated, but must be enormous. A recent example is the tiger mosquito , now commonplace in Florida, introduced to the U.S. from Japan in the mid-1980's and now spreading in many regions, breeding largely in water that collects in disgarded tires. The species attacks more hosts than any other mosquito in the world, including many mammals, birds and reptiles. It can thus carry disease organisms from one species to another, including into humans.
Costs to natural systems, although not easily translated into dollars, are staggering. Perhaps the greatest impacts are caused by plant species that come to dominate entire ecosystems. The Melaleuca plant, which is increasing its range in south Florida by some 35 acres each day, replaces cypress and other native plants and provides poorer habitat for numerous animals. In many regions and near the everglades, it forms vast, dense monocultures where no other plant can grow.
Introduced species can drastically affect specific plants or animals even when the invaders do not modify the entire ecosystem; for example, feeding upon a native species to the point of its extinction. The semaphore cactus, found until recently in the lower Florida Keys, is such a victim. The South American cactus moth most likely arrived in Florida through the transport in cut flowers. The moth reached the Florida Keys by 1990, and soon eliminated most of the semaphore cactus in the region. Any that remain today must be protected by cages. Meanwhile the moth has adapted to eat other plants in the Keys, and has continued to grow in number.

Competition

Introduced species can compete with native ones. In Florida, the decline of the native wasp; Pseudhomalopoda prima of value as a major enemy of pests, corresponded closely with the arrival of another wasp from southern AsiaChrysomphalus aonidium, which had been introduced in 1990 for the same purpose.

Hybridization

Mating between some introduced species can lead to extinction of the native species by replacing some of its genes. For example, mallard ducks released in the wild for hunting in Florida, have bred with the native Florida mottled duck, whose existence is now threatened by hybridization.
Plants can also fall prey to the same phenomenon. An example is the Lantana depressa, which is found on a few dune and limestone areas in the Florida penninsula. It easily hybridizes with Lantana camara the descendant of several Latin American or West Indian species that were brought to Europe as ornamentals in the 17th Century, hybridized by horticulturalists, and then introduced by the late 18th century into the New World.

The Geography of Introduced Species

All parts of the U.S. host troublesome introduced species, but not all states are affected equally. Particularly hard hit is Florida, owing to its geographic location, mild climate. and its reliance on tourism and international trade. At least three of the twenty-four known "extinctions" of species in Florida listed under the Endangered Species Act have been wholy or partially caused by loss of habitat to non-native species. In Florida, about 25 percent of many plant and animal group s are not native, and millions of acres of land and water are dominated by invasive introduced species.
Five features common to Florida accounts for its disproportionate number of introduced species.
The first is its geographic insularity. The Florida penninsula is a "habitat island" bounded on three sides by water, and on the fourth side by forest.
Second, in Florida land cover is dominated by human-produce d habitats, such as agriculture and residential tracts. Heavy agriculture and residential use is often unfavorable to native plant and animal species, but seems to be suitable for a variety of non-indigenous species.

Third, Florida has large tropical or subtropical areas, particularly, in the southern part of the state, and the abscence of freezing temperatures allows many species to survive. It is no accident that the northern limits of the ranges of many of Florida's introduced species are precisely where overnight freezes occur. Moreover, the climate of the state has encouraged the introduction and dissemination of an immense number of non-native species that are sold as ornamental plants or pets. The accidental escape of the exotic ornamentals such as the banana poka (pictured below) the Brazilian pepper, or of pets like bulbuls(related to finches), and tropical fish would be innocuous in most regions of the U.S., because of the local climate. In Florida, these animals have thrived and spread, suffocating local species.
The fourth distinguishing feature of Florida, is that it is a hub for transportation and popular destinations for tourists. Most visitors from Latin America enter through Miami, and many planes and ships from other regions land there as well. Fully 85 percent of all plant shipments into the U.S. pass through Miami; in 1990 the total was estimated at 333 million plants.(Dahlsten, 1989)

Finally, Florida is a center for the trade in exotic pets. Many U.S. pet store chains have their headquarters in Florida, and rely on the international traffic to supply them with newer and more exotic pets all the time. Many people do not have any idea how to keep these animals, and even tually end up releasing them into the Florida habitat. This is common with tropical fish and birds such as the African grey parrot, common to pet stores, who destroys palm trees, and consumes the food supply of native birds. Popular tropical fish such as the Zebra Danio and other tetras thrive in Florida marsh waters that are extremely similar in temperature and food supply to their native homes in the Caribbean. Exotic reptiles released into the wild, quickly find thier way to water sources, and compete for the food supply of Floridian species such as the Alligator snapping turtle In fact, one of the most common turtle species today in the Everglades, the Red eared slider was originally imported from Europe and sold as a durable pet.
Obviously the likelihood of inadvertant introduction of alien species is enormous.
[The banana poka or Passifloraceae is a light-loving vine, which smothers the forest canopy, cutting off light to native plants on the forest floor].(photo taken from University of Hawaii Botany Department)
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More info:

From Melissa Kaplan at http://www.anapsid.org/release.html

Releasing Long-term Captives: Why you can't do it.
It is illegal to release non-native wildlife into any area. Nonnative is any species that is not native to the area you are thinking of releasing it in. Many people do realize that there are many species of box turtles, for example. Just because there are box turtles where you live in Texas does not mean that they are the same species as the box turtle you brought back from your trip to Virginia.

It is illegal to release native wildlife without a permit. Even wildlife rehabilitators require special permits and licenses to operate.

It is morally unethical. Assuming you want it to live, giving it to a pet store for resale is probably not an option. The reason the California desert tortoises are under threat of extinction is because those populations not disturbed by habitat destruction are being decimated by a viral infection spread into the wild populations by sick former captives who were released into the wild to either live or die - the former owners didn't particularly care which, and had some foolish notion that if they were meant to get better, they would.

In addition, long term captives may be carrying organisms against which they have developed immunity but against which wild populations have not - thus a release such as you plan could be devastating to the native turtle populations. And, conversely, the wild populations may have immunity against organisms against which your foundling does not - again, a release could be lethal. Other animals may be affected as well, as many of the infecting organisms will happily inhabit many different types of hosts.

Releasing long term captives outside their normal range, even if it is in similar habitat, may also prove fatal as many of them fail to learn to feed, hide and generally survive. (One study of wild rattlesnakes resulted in most of the study group dying, despite the fact that the biologists released them into what they considered to be prime habitat for that species, an area which was devoid of any other rattlers.) Also, they have little natural defenses against predators which may be different than the ones in the locale in which they evolved.

The best thing to do is to contact your local herpetological society (or turtle and tortoise society, if applicable), and give the reptile to them. They will check them over to assure they are healthy, treating them if they are not. They will then be adopted out to people who will care for them properly.

Breeding For Release
I also get mail from people who want to start breeding a native (and, sometimes, nonnative!) species and release it in their local parks, yards, or wilderness areas. Unfortunately, despite their good intentions, there are insurmountable problems associated with putting this into practice.

One of the biggest reasons is that referred to above: the species may not native to the intended release area. Another is that, if there are no salamanders, or box turtles, or rattlesnakes, or whatever it is you want to breed, there already, or are present in rapidly dwindling numbers, there is a reason why that is happening. Just putting more individuals out there is not likely to increase the population, just the number of animals dying or disappearing into poachers' or illegal collectors' bags.

When native species disappear from an area, there is a reason: the food supply that the local populations once depended upon have disappeared, either through other changes in the environment, pollutants or other reasons, mainly due to habitat destruction. Unless you identify the reasons for the change in native population numbers, and correct the causes for their decline, your released population will fare no better.

Even heavily researched, rigidly controlled breeding-for-release programs fail due to a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the animal's inability to adapt to the environment. Doing so without fully surveying the native population, recording burrows, food supplies, knowing the difference between male and female ranges, etc., too often results in released animals dying of stress, starvation, hyper- or hypothermia, or dehydration. Also, without full knowledge of the predator population, both natural and introduced, risks of overly high predation are also likely. These are all things that wildlife biologists have problems doing (due to time, money and manpower constraints) and such studies, when they are done, take years to complete and analyze the data...and even then, release programs can still fail.

Properly managed wildlife release programs must be done with great care, including the careful screening of the individuals slated for release, including selecting for age and sex. In addition, the individuals need to be tested for parasites and pathogens.

If it were as easy as many well-intentioned people think, we wouldn't have the number of endangered and threatened species we now have. Instead, researching species and potential release areas takes long years of work, fraught with frustrations, not the least of which is state and federal red-tape.

For more information on the problems associated with breeding for release programs, read wildlife biologist/herpetologist Rob Nelsen's article, Captive Breeding for Conservation.

Short-term Catch-and-Release
Some individuals like to catch a local herp, keep it for a day or two, then release it. This may be done so that the person, or his or her children, can see the species close up for a short time without actually depriving the wild of that individual.

Short-term catch-and-release should only be done with those species that it is legal to catch. Your state department of fish and game will have published lists of protected species. In California, you can find the list at the Department of Fish and Game's website or in the CDF&G Sport Fishing guide available at stores selling fishing licenses.

When you collect a short-term captive, be sure to strictly quarantine it from any other herps you may have, regardless of their species. Put it into a thoroughly cleaned and disinfected enclosure, and discard the bedding and disinfect all furnishings before using them for any other animal. For quarantine, cleaning and disinfecting procedures, please read my Cleaning and Disinfecting article.

When you catch a short-term captive, do so only if you can release it where you found it. If you are on a camping trip 4 hours from home, don't take that lizard unless you plan on returning to that site in the next 24-48 hours to put the lizard back where you found it. If you take a reptile from the middle of the road, place it off the road, on the side that the reptile was facing when you picked it up. If you know you won't be able to get back to the capture site, don't take the animal.

The Plight of Exotics
Exotics, in this case, are species that are not native to your country. When these animals are no longer wanted, release into the wild is simply not an alternative, anywhere. There are no preserves for unwanted green iguanas, nor for unwanted Burmese pythons, or Nile monitors, as people often think there are. There are no zoos, wildlife educators, or other institutions waiting with open arms for the vast majority of the herps in the pet trade - they already have their fill of other people's cast off pets.

If you have an exotic that you can no longer keep, you are responsible for finding a proper home for it, or at least getting it to someone or a group who can do so. Do not release these animals into your yard, or park, or nearby wilderness area. Not only is this illegal, it is almost certainly a death sentence, especially for tropical, desert, or montane species release outside of similar habitats. If you cannot find a suitable home for your herp (and you need to understand that, regardless of what you spent buying the animal and all of its supplies, food, and veterinary care, you may still have to give it away, along with its enclosure and equipment), you will have to keep it until you can find someone qualified to care for it. In extreme cases, if there is no other alternative (and, again, release is not an alternative), veterinary euthanasia may be the only recourse.

The cold, hard, fact, here in 1997, is that more reptiles are being dumped than there are rescuers who can take them in and care for them until homes are found. Reptile rescues are generally working out of their own homes, out of their own pockets, or with what little fundraising they can manage. Animals who are very ill, or untamed, and thus have a reduced chance of being adopted out, may well be euthanized just to make room for the non-stop flood of incoming reptiles. If there is a chance you won't be able to take care of an animal for its entire life, do the reptile-and reptile rescuers-a favor and don't get it to begin with.

Final Note...
Sometimes, the greater lessons can be learned, not from the reptile or amphibian in hand, but from its absence. Finding out why a species is scarce in, or absent from, an area, and working to change those conditions, or at least to prevent further decline in the remaining populations, may be far more important than any amount of captive breeding you can do. By the same token, how many more desert, Texas, and gopher tortoises would grace our wildlands today if people had not so cavalierly released sick individuals? The wild populations would still be impacted by the habitat destruction, but how many more would still be alive in the remoter areas and preserves?

Whatever collecting and releasing you do, please do so carefully, with full knowledge of the legalities-and ethics-of your actions.
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and one more thing. As the previous post states, veterninary euthanasia may be the only option.

Freezing is only for those people who dont want to pay a vet to euthanize. From what I read in the first post, this person apparently doesnt want to spend the money to properly care for the turtle, so why would they pay for its death.
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For starters, thank you Beth123, turtlemh,and dsres for responding like civilized people. I appreciate your advice and thoughtfulness. dsres, it is my apology, I think I worded my first post wrong. All turtles are different and have different personalities. My turtle and I do get along, also that is absolutely not the reason why I would set her free. I am obviously not a expert. If I was an expert I would've known the answer to my own question and I would have never wrote it in the first place. I come here for advice and to answer questions I do know the answer too. So once again, I apologize that I wrote that question. It looked like it brought on some problems and immature postings by "iturnrocks" so I apologize for him. Thank you all! Love Always, Erica

First of all, thank you for your opinion of me and how I think. Even though that rude, and disrespectful, I do appreciate it. I think you had no right to question how old I was. My age doesn't matter. I could be 10 or 100 and I still would think the same.
Oh the "freezer" comment was really mature. I want you and your sarcasm to know that I love my turtle and I would never never, never kill her. I can't imagine someone to ever think that,let alone write it. I don't understand how someone can lecture about killing wildlife turtles just after you said that. That is my opinion in return.
Here is my thoughts, I think you should have never written a posting if you can't be mature and look at the big picture. Also, no I am obviously not an "expert" on turtles and that is why I wrote that question. I don't know why people like you have to comment just to benefit themselves in the pleasure of being a jerk and hurt someone in the process. I suggest in the near future you only post comments that are positive and respectful. It will save people time and positive karma.

I have frozen unwanted reptiles before. People give them to me, if theres nothing I can do for them, I kill them. If you would like to send money to the "iturnrocks-pay the veterinarian to euthanize" fund, you can use paypal at dan@iturnrocks.com I believe its $40 each. A buddy of mine wants to drive his unwanted dog out in the country and let it go, because he doesnt want to kill it. Im pretty sure it will be able to handle the climate. Any suggestions?

I dont know from personal experience if releasing captive animals into the wild will kill anything. All I know is what I hear and read in the news, and from herpetologists.

Suggesting Freezing is not so uncommon. Plenty of people freeze unwanted reptiles. But talking about it with animal rights activists usually stirs them up. Although I believe a top PETA executive said he cant wait for mad cow disease to come to america, Showing that if its gonna die anyway, why not kill all of em. So im sure he would release his pet turtle to the wild.

Ok, so asking your age might have been uncalled for. I sometimes forget that adults dont know much as well. Your spelling for the most part is excellent, which is better than most adults online. Her tub is to small should be too, but everyone misses that one. I even screw some up sometimes. And then theres internet slang which screws words all the time.

except for the first post when I asked your age, most of the other crap was directed at the activists who think freezing is cruel and unusual. Im sure you will make the right decision, and if you dont, no biggie. Im sure theres a lot worse threats to wild turtles thru pollution, and habitat destruction that you letting your unwanted turtle go. This world is screwed either way.
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I already knew that releasing captive animals into the wild was illegal and could harm natural wild animals. But I live in Texas and as far as I know, red eared sliders are native here, or at least there are alot of them. So I obviously know that red eareds can survive here. I don't know where jada123 lives, but I think that if she, or someone else, can't or won't keep their turtle, then releasing it into the wild will at least give it a chance of survival, rather than killing it. I highly doubt that one turtle can seriously affect a whole ecosystem or animal colony. It seems to me that jada123 hasn't had her turtle very long, so it is not like she is a long-time captive turtle.

its not really a matter of whether it can survive or not, its a matter of should it be there. My friends unwanted dog will probly survive if noone shoots it. I know wild pigs can survive in australia, I see steve irwin chasing them all the time. I know the italian wall lizard can survive in Topeka, KS.
I know people that catch them all the time.

The real problem is that people get pets without fully understanding the necessary commitment. There are plenty of people who have children and decide they dont want them anymore. Is it any different? Not really.
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I also agree that pets shouldn't be released to the wild without much thought after they've been in captivity. There have been many precedents of non-native animals wreaking havoc in the wild. THe most recent example concerns a pair of carnivorous snakeheads (kept as pet fish) released into a Maryland pond, threatening the native aquatic ecosystem. Even if a captive animal is released into an environment where its kind thrives, the former captive may have weakened immune/defense system to have a fair chance of survival; worse, it might introduce pathogens that could endanger the endogenous population.

Of course the best case scenario for a pet that can no longer be properly cared for is to be given up for adoption. But if it has to be euthanized, it should be done such that the animal experiences minimal suffering. I'm not an expert, so I don't know the best way to euthanize a turtle. If freezing is not the way, I'm sure there are other ways of doing it that are more humane. If the owner is too weak-hearted for the procedure (and rightly so too), then I don't see any problem with giving the animal to a certified professional to perform the procedure.

Just my two cents...

I understand that people get pets without fully understanding their commitment, yet it is not always their fault. Some people are just ill-informed about their pet. Take me for example, I bought two RES hatchlings at a fair about 3 months ago, and they didn't inform me about all the care they needed. They even lied and told me that the biggest they'd get would be a half dollar size. As soon as I started looking up on them, I found out all the responsibility they were going to take. I still have them and they are in a wonderful setup ( a big tank with all the necessities) compared to what they were in when given to me (one of those plastic tanks with a palm tree glued in the middle). Some people are willing to take that commitment to their animals and some people aren't. That doesn't make them bad people and you should not critize them.

Yea dont be an idiot, just because you and your turtle arent getting along doenst mean you should freez it. Think of all the people in the world, some on this message board i bet, who would like to freeze you. Give it away or something

hello,
depending on how large your turtle is and if you are willing to ship it. I or my friend might be happy to take care of it for you. i have musk turtles and my friend has RES i have more room than she does but she was going to upgrade to a 100 gallon aquarium and sell me her 55 to branch out to other turtle species. i was thinking of getting an eastern painted but i would be much happier helping out an unwanted turtle. and that way no one gets frozen(not that i believe for a second that you would do that) an no ones eco system gets destroyed either.
you can e-mail me at hammost@quincy.edu if this seems like an ok arrangement. please include size, age, how long you have had her and any other info you think would be relavant. hope to hear from you soon.