Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Has anyone seen albino E. schrenckii anomala for sale and what
are people asking form them? Does anyone have photos of Albino
or normal Koreans that they are willing to post?

CurtS, There are actually 3 known phases of Korean rats. There is the normal black with white/yellow banding. There is also a brown phase that is similar to the black but the banding seems to be wider and the colors are browns. There is also a yellow phase that has no bands and looks at first glance like a yellow rat but you can differenciate between the two with a little closer look(if the difference in attitude doesn't give it away right away). A few days ago I also located a melanistic phase of wich i posted a picture. To my knowledge there is not any others known. I will reposost the picture as well as a picture of a brown phase. I had some pictures of the yellow phase but do not find them on my PC. I will either find them or get some other pictures of one and post it as well. I am sure that others will have the normally seen phase so will not bother with it but if you still need some normals let me know. Please note that these are naturally occuring color phases and are not produced by any captive breeding. On the other hand, I have not seen an albino korean rat and would question the albino line. I have several reasons for saying this and would welcome any feedback concerning this thought.

this is a picture of the brown phase. let me know if you want or need anything else.

Very interesting. Are you located in South Korea?

Terry

>>CurtS, There are actually 3 known phases of Korean rats. There is the normal black with white/yellow banding. There is also a brown phase that is similar to the black but the banding seems to be wider and the colors are browns. There is also a yellow phase that has no bands and looks at first glance like a yellow rat but you can differenciate between the two with a little closer look(if the difference in attitude doesn't give it away right away). A few days ago I also located a melanistic phase of wich i posted a picture. To my knowledge there is not any others known. I will reposost the picture as well as a picture of a brown phase. I had some pictures of the yellow phase but do not find them on my PC. I will either find them or get some other pictures of one and post it as well. I am sure that others will have the normally seen phase so will not bother with it but if you still need some normals let me know. Please note that these are naturally occuring color phases and are not produced by any captive breeding. On the other hand, I have not seen an albino korean rat and would question the albino line. I have several reasons for saying this and would welcome any feedback concerning this thought.
>>

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Ratsnake Haven: South Korean Dione's ratsnake, bimaculata phases, mandarina locales, calico and hypo taeniura, leopard snakes, Great Plains ratsnakes

yes, I live in Korea. I am actually in the middle of doing a documentary on the Korean Rat and other reptiles native to this country.

Welcome to the Ratsnake Forum!

I, for one, would be very interested in seeing that documentary. Please keep us posted, or e-mail me when there's a date.

I'd very much like to see more ratsnakes pictures. That melanistic anomala is rare. I've never seen that before and I don't think any have been imported. I'd like to see the yellow phase too.

I have a pair, or rather offspring now, from a pair of Dione's Ratsnakes from Seoul that were imported by the late Lloyd Lemke. I also have a friend that's living in Seoul, but that's another story. He hasn't seen any snakes, or other herps, yet.

Good luck with your ventures over there,

TC

Terry, I know Lloyd only by reputation. I know he imported lots of RE sliders and I believe iguanas and I consult several reptile zoos here in korea that have spoken of him and his wife (I think her name is Sunny?) The reptile hobby here in korea has come a long way since those days and I would like to think that I have contributed to that. I sort of took off were Lloyd left off. I said documentary but what it actually is, is a weekly show that my daughter and I do 3-5 show series for by traveling to various countries in search of reptiles. I am sort of the Korean version of the croc hunter (but no so melodramatic). My daughter is a well known model/actress here. What we are doing now is a 3 show series on Korean reptiles. I had the good fortune of doing the show with the leading expert and his assistant. I actually found the adult melanistic female within minutes of landing on a remote island off of the west coast near inchon, on the very first day that I had ever hunted for any korean reptiles. Dr. Shim who has written a book here and spent countless hours in the field has never seen or heard of a melanistic schrenki. The korean rat is highly protected and very rare here and he has only found a handful of them in all his years so he was as shocked as I at my "beginners luck". What a find! I also am curious as to wether there are actually any korean rats in the U.S. that originated from S. Korea. Not only are they highly protected and illegal to possess here in Korea but there is no way they could be legally exported. I also cannot see them being illegally exported because there is a black market here that demands much higher prices for them than anyone would ever get in the U'S.. They are sought for thier medicinal value and this is a major reason for their decline in numbers. I would be curious as to your thinking on wether they are in fact anomala in the U.S. are simply E. schrenki schrenki. Perhaps there have been some anomala that derived from N. Korea and were sent to China prior to being exported to the U.S.? I guess another possibility would be specimens being brought back by guys from the Army stationed over here. As difficult as it is for me to see how any anomala would find its way out of S. Korea, it seems next to impossible that any albino would have ever left Korea. I plan on discussing it with Dr Shim during our next field trip this week to see if he knows of any albino ever being found, but if one did exist, its astronomical value here in Korea would in itself ensure that it never left Korea. This being the case, I am very curious as to how anyone could claim to have an albino anomala from pure wc stock. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Hello again, Nydon.

It's interesting you should bring up herping in Korea. There has never been very much info on the snakes of Korea. K. D. Schulz ('96), in his monograph on "Elaphe" ratsnakes, said that the distribution was very poorly known there, that E. s. schrencki occured along the ne. coast of the Korean peninsula, and there might be exchange of genes to the west, in N. Korea, and to the south, along the coast. He also said two E. s. schrencki were reported by Szynlar & Hung Dam O (1987) from the Pyongyang Zoo.

I got interested in Elaphe schrencki (Amur Ratsnakes) in 1988, when after reading about Old World ratsnakes in European magazines, I saw a pair of "Russians" kept by Mark Bell in Michigan. He was one of only a couple snake breeders in the U. S. to have an interest in Old World ratsnakes. I bought a pair and a few years later I also kept a couple E. s. anomala, but I only kept these long enough to breed once. The Russians I still have. E. s. anomala have always been rather rare in the hobby, and I had never heard of any mutations. Suddenly, about four years ago, maybe five, I saw the albino "Koreans". I think it was at the International Herp Show, in Orlando, FL, at the time.

I heard of Lloyd Lemke in 1994 or 95, I think. At that time I decided to start breeding the smaller Old World "Elaphe" and that's when I purchased Lloyd's E. dione and E. bimaculata stock, among other things. It took me until 2001 to produce my first clutch of South Korean Dione's ratsnakes. At that time I decided to concentrate on just the South Koreans, thus my strong interest in this country. Other people imported dione that were also from Korea originally. I think a few scientists did some study and collecting there and brought back E. dione. I don't know if they took any E. schrencki with them, or not. So, I don't know when South Korea decided to make collecting E. schrencki illegal, and I don't know if this applies to all the ratsnakes there.

As far as the albino Korean ratsnakes go, I have no idea how they got started. However, the range of E. s. anomala is quite large. It extends as far south as the Yangtze River and Zhoushan Island in China. I would expect that the original speciman came from China. The name, Korean Ratsnake, is a misnomer to some extent. I used to call them Southern Amur Ratsnakes, after Schulz, or the Faded Amur Ratsnake, which are also misnomers, since they don't come from the Amur region. The snake has been reclassified since then as Elaphe anomala, but the change hasn't been firmly accepted, yet. As a separate species, the name, Korean Ratsnake, seems to fit a little better.

I'd like to see the yellow speciman you talked about. Could it possibly be an albino? There have also been some high yellow specimens from China.

The black and yellow specimens you talked about might not be Korean ratsnakes, E. s. anomala. They might be "Russian" ratsnakes, E. s. schrencki. Could you post a picture of one of them? Here's a photo of my E. s. schrencki when they were younger...

I believe the Korean Ratsnakes, E. s. anomala, are normally a brown or a greyish phase. A black phase would be quite unnusual. Please keep me posted on this. Many thanks...

Terry

young albino schrencki anomala

another young specimen

They look rather different as adults.

The only albinos I've seem for sale were $500 a pair from Praireland Herpetoculture. Mark/Kim Bell may breed them also(I'm not 100% sure).

The albinos posted should breed next season. This is a normal female schencki anomala that be breeding along with my albinos to add new bloodlines.

Cheers,

Tom
ps - drop me an email if you have any questions about this specie

Thanks for everyone's responces. If I did everything right, there is a photo with this message. The photo is showing my pair of Korean rats mating. This pair het for albino and this year's clutch did contain some albinos. The hatchlings already have home if you were wondering. Does anyone know
the history this line of albinos? Did they originate in the US or was the founder(s) imported? I purchase this pair as hatchlings at a Kansas City show 4 or 5 years ago. I didn't think to asked the seller at the time about the origins of his snakes.