Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey,
Well so far, all they have said to me is that, Tank had suffered from what they described as ulcerations of the esophagus, with an accompanying bacterial infection. That is all I've gotten so far. I'll keep everyone posted when I get the full report back from the lab. Basically, it was the bacterial infection that killed him.
Man! what can I say. It stinks!
-Angel
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"Until we lose our self, there is no way of finding our self."
-Henry Miller.

I'm sorry about your loss.

Atleast you have something to go on mnow man. Figuring out how the bacterial infection happened will be the tough part. Good luck bro

Jordan
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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

Hey,
Yeah! my guess is that, the bacteria deposited it self along the esophagus during the regurgitation, infecting the lesions further, and causing the ulcerations to form. That's just a guess. I have a feeling that the kidneys were also compromised during the episode too.

ulceration:
n 1: a circumscribed inflammatory and often suppurating lesion on the skin or an internal mucous surface resulting in necrosis of tissue [syn: ulcer] 2: the process of ulcer formation; the process of becoming ulcerated

-Angel
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"Until we lose our self, there is no way of finding our self."
-Henry Miller.

Man Angel.....
Is "ulcerations of the esophagus" Anything like the damn acid refux I have. Does that mean that ultimatly your beloved Tank died from heart burn. Not to make light of the situation but that suck. And you said there were no sighn IE decreased appitite or regurge?
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Kevin
I am lost w/o spell check
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself."-unknown

That is scary to think about....

My new baby corn regurged both pinks she ate the first nite (stress, ect). I know regurgetation is bad, but i never thought it would cause an infection like that.

Why did he regurgetate in the first place? Do you know?

I am so sorry about tank. He was beautiful...

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"raised by a cup of coffee"

1.0 ball python- Azazel
1.0 columbian boa- Brooklyn
1.0 red blood python-Hiss
1.0 peach phase thayeri-Sancho
0.1 creamsicle corn- Pandora
0.1 partial stripe ghost corn- Raven
1.1 hognose- Pricilla and Odd
0.1 russian tortoise- Manja
0.1.1 leos- Boji and Kodama
0.1 beardie- Indie
1.0 BTS- Griffon
0.1 Iggy- Sunny
0.0.2 Red american toadlets with 0.0.7 legs total (er, i have one w/3....)
0.0.1 gray tree frog toadlet
0.0.6 land snails
0.0.2 millipedes of unknown species from TN
0.0.1 spotted slug
5.3 bettas
0.1 pacific parrolet- Mishka
1.1 cats- Cairo and Oberon
2.3 ratties Rizzo, Bounce, Bree, Blitzkreig, and Zelda

Hey,
The only thing that I can think of, is, that he might have had a prexisting condition that was asymptomatic and purhaps his cohabitating, with a pair of females that he was breeding, might have stressed him out. All of my other males and females are fed and cohabitate during breeding and are fed and allowed to remain with the females during feedings, and have never exhibited any untoward effects just after a meal. My only guess is that, he might have stressed and the regurge might have caused him to lacerate his esophagus during the regurgitation, as bones were found along with the regurge from the already 4 day post-prandial carcass.

Mind you, raw food is loaded with bacteria from the putrefaction process and digestion so the area of the esophagus was probably contaminated in the process with bacteria depositing itself along the way. This is an animal that showed zero signs of stress or anything that would've indicated to me, that there was anything wrong. However, this will serve as a lesson to me, and from here on in, any males cohabitating with females during breeding shall be separated during the feeding week, and allowed to digest in a separate container.

-Angel
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"Until we lose our self, there is no way of finding our self."
-Henry Miller.

I was sorry to hear about your loss. I also have a couple of questions concerning this incident:
Was there just one occurrence of regurgitation, and what was the time period between the initial/last regurgitation and death?
And, I am interested in your comment about the kidneys being compromised and what made you think that this could be a possibility. Thanks,

Kelly

Hey,
This animal has been in my care since December of 2003. He has always been the epitome of health and had survived a few days in a Fedex, box, as they had failed to deliver him on schedule. That's the sad part, his survival in the middle of winter, and to fall prey to something as beguiling as what took his life; it's hard to swallow.

Sorry for the ramble! He (Tank), had never demonstrated any real amazing interest in f/f rats, but would take live mice with no problem. However, the problem with that was that he was a 3 year old male, and should've been eating larger food for his size. He would take f/t on that rare occasion, and had even started to take them off of the forcep with no problem. (Never a regurgitation).

The last meal that he took, he did so, while cohabitating with the breeding females he was paired up with. He had bred for the first time 3 days prior to his last meal, and had not exhibited any signs of stress nor maladjustment to living in the same cage with the females. On the contrary, he seemed quite comfortable in the larger quarter. He ate almost immediately, when presented with food, taking it from the forcep with out any resistance to the type of food. He was fed a 350-400 gm rat - the same size meal he has taken since his arrival.

My reason for stating the kidney issue, was one of supposition, on my part. The infection seemed quite virulent. I have not seen an animal fall victim to such a degree as I did Tank. I thought almost immediately to my self, that this infection was systemic and without prejudice to organ, as he was defecating every few minutes - passing aqueous stools that had a rancid odor to it. Just before he passed, he had also everted his hemipenes, which I thought was quite odd. This by all intents seemed unusually unexplainable. He was definately inextremis and suffering from something other than just a regurgation. I should have a full pathology report in the next couple of days.
-Angel
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"Until we lose our self, there is no way of finding our self."
-Henry Miller.

From the symptoms it sounds like a severe intestinal bacterial infection, but it's hard to guess without the full path report. The eversion of the hemipenes is quite unusual and would also seem to indicate the severity of the infection. About 15 to 20 years ago I observed several blood pythons in another collection die of kidney failure associated with antibiotic overdosages. An unusual symptom they all had in common was that they were found expired will biting the mid-sections of their bodies; probably associated with the kidney failure. The curtus group are all more prone to antibiotic overdose than other python taxa. Their systems are apparently less tolerant of antibiotics, and the class of antibiotic does not seem to make a large difference. Thanks for the info and would be interested in the report when you hear. Thanks,

Kelly

Well atleast you've gotten some info on what happened.Do all these test cost a pretty penny or do they do it for free or what.
Just wondering for if one day this might happen to me.
Thanks, Ethan