Reptile & Amphibian Forums

About 3 weeks ago my daughter accidentally ran over a young copperhead with the lawnmower. She called me out, and luckily he was still alive and not too badly wounded. He got lucky I think, didn't come into too much contact with the blades but got run over by the wheels, crushing some ribs in the process. He also suffered a fairly deep gash to the top of his head onto his neck, and ended up losing about 2" off the end of his tail. For this we've been calling him 'Stumpy'. I fixed him up best I could, I had to remove the tail, it was just hanging, and I thouroughly cleaned and then stitched the wound on his head. He did not attempt to bit during any of this, he did thrash a little due to the burning of the betadine and the stitching, but otherwise he was and has been since a complete angel, I have come to love him. He has eaten 3 wild anoles and a couple of my own hopper mice the last 2 weeks, and he loves his water dish.

I was planning to release the snake a ways back from our house in the woods, but the whole family has come to love him, and curiously he seems to like being here. Although the wound on his head is healing well I think he may end up either losing one eye or at least going blind in it as it started looking cloudy a few days ago, and seems to be getting worse. He is not an old snake, actually I think he's quite young as he's only about 22" long. I'm pretty sure its a male, but I could be mistaken since half the tail is missing and I haven't attempted to probe yet...do they probe like most other snakes?

I do not have a venemous license, but I really don't think this guy will do well back in the wild. What do you people think I should do? he is a beautiful snake despite the scarring and disfigurement he has suffered, and I can't stand the thought of him getting killed & eaten, or not being able to hunt properly and dying of starvation out in the woods.
I am also afraid to turn him in to the animal authorities here because they aren't very nice, and I think they would euthenize him instead of helping him.
Any advice?
Thanks so much.

PS: I keep kingsnakes and various other snake species, so I'm not new to snakes...just new to these guys. Thanks

I did some digging around and found ut that we do not need permits for native species here in south Georgia, only for exotic venemous. That is a relief, as I didn't want to get in any trouble by keeping him around. I am aware of the venemous bite, doubly so as I have an 11 year old and a 12 year old in the house. They stay well enough away from him, they've been taught not to mess with these guys since they were old enough to comprehend.
I'm sure once he gains his full health back (if he does) he will become much more snappy. Depending on how well he does we'll decide then whether to keep or release.
But I'd still like to know what you guys think, and also if they probe the same as most other snakes (deep for males, shallow females and how many scales for each)
Thanks

First off, it is my opinion, whether or not you are planning on keeping the snake, to have it looked at by a vet or at least a licensed rehaber, in order to accurately evaluate its current condtion. I've seen wild snakes with scarring equivalent to the injuries you mentioned, and worse, and don't think that releasing it would be life threatening to the snake.
A few questions.
Has the snake been completely quarantined from the rest of your collection? If not, I wouldn't release it, as you risk spreading pathogens into wild populations of snakes.
You mentioned that a good chunk of tail is gone, is the cloaca unscathed? Has the snake defacated yet?
Is the snake in a sterile environment? As I think you already know, this is essential in order to prevent infection of the wounds.
As for sexing the animal, a cloacal depth of less than or even equivalent to 12 subcaudals suggests that it is a female, any more, it is almost certainly a male.
One other thing, make sure you keep it locked up. As a pre-teen, I was dangerously curious.
Just a few things to consider, in case you hadn't already.
Good luck, and I'll be interested to know of the fate of that animal.
creep

First off thank you for your response
Stumpy is still doing very well, the wound on his head has been completely dry for over a week now so I need to remove the 4 sutures I put in fairly soon. His eye is still cloudy, not as bad as it would be if he was in full shed though, looks more like a light cataract. I need to shine a light in it to se if there's a pupilary reaction.
And yes, he is indeed isolated from the rest of my collection, in fact he's out on our back screened in porch, not even in the house. he has only been brought into the kitchen twice for his minor surgery and a follow-up check since he's been here.
His cloaca was not harmed in the accident thank goodness, and it is perfectly functional as he has shown us solidly twice in the last week, and liquidly all over us when we were first fixing him up, lol. The stump ends about 3/4 of an inch below his vent, and is also healing up nicely. he has been kept on newspaper in a clean 20g tank w/ locked down screen top....with a half a cinder block on top just to make sure
The closest reliable reptile vet to us is about 2 hours away, and I don't think he really knows all that much, so having been a surgical nurse for the last 13 years I decided to take care of him myself..if he takes a turn for the worse I will certainly take him somewhere.
And yes...I know in my heart I really should release him, but he is such a sweetheart ( I say that now, just wait til he bites me!) I dn't know if I'll be able to. I know...I'm hopeless....

I'm no surgical nurse, but it sounds like you have the situation under control....Congratulatons! It also sounds like he is under optimal conditions, should he become a refuge from the perils of lawncare.
Just remember not to underestimate his capabilites. Be careful and have fun!

Unless a person has a cleanroom, ie. O.R. or sterility suite (class 100 or the like), I don't think anyone has their snakes in a sterile environment. Unless that room is pressurized, and sterile gowning is worn at all times, it ain't sterile. If as much as a piece of hair is exposed, it ain't sterile. Pharm companies, vets, and, venom researchers are most likely the few that work in sterile environments.

You're right, I was refering to a temporarily sterilized cage (i.e.-bleach solution). I only know where there is one truely sterile room, and it is in a pathology lab in the Albany, NY area. For someone who knows what a pressurized room is, your grammer suprises me.

Since you wanna correct me, wait, WANT TO correct me. You're ( you are) wrong on both accounts, there's (there is) probably 50 where I work alone. Not to mention, every hospital has a few. And yes, I do know about pressurized rooms, I happen to work in a few. Where exactly did you say you go to school again? I'm just curious, it seems as though you are quite an expert on pretty much everything at such a young age. I can't help but be impressed, I mean, you know the state Herpetologist, you know how many people have their ESP's, you must go to Cornell. If you wanna (want to) be a smart@ss again, feel free.
Ta-ta, ahem, I mean, Sincerely Yours,
Tom

I'm sorry, maybe I should refrain from such comments and bite my keyboard a little more often, but I have to do that all day at the workplace and I just can't (cannot) help myself once I get home. Either you copy conversations from the forums or spend alot of time referencing the archives. If you want to continue this or start another round, try emailing me, I'm sure you've figured out my address by now.

Bill

Ever heard the phrase: 'Everything we learn in this life is everything we already know and are just being reminded of that knowledge.'?

Y'all (you all) behave!

LOL

No I didn't search the archives, I just have a good memory. Not to mention, there are very few herpers in here from NY, so I make it a point to read and remember what any of them have to say, especially when it's concerning NY's laws.

laws, makes you wonder how long NY's permits are going to remain 'interm', huh?

Where in south Georgia are you? I'm also in south Georgia, and I'm in the process of going through the permit process to get a venomous license, but I'm having trouble with the insurance part. In short, I have yet to be able to find any company who will offer me the required insurance. But we're still looking diligently. And yes, you are correct -- no permit required for native venomous snakes, but you do need a permit for non-venomous native snakes. Strange, huh?

RP

Really? Whare are ya?
We're just outside of Douglas, in Coffee Co.

How 'bout that? I live in Douglas, on East Walker Street. Small world, huh?

RP

The best herp vet I've found in our area, and it's been awhile since I used him, is Dr. Richard Bink in Savannah. He's excellent. His clinic is called Animal Medical Clinic, and if my memory serves me correctly, he was a vet at the Philadelphia Zoo many years ago, and has much experience with reptiles. He's a great guy, super nice and very knowledgeable. Both Dr. Carter and Dr. Wills in Douglas will work on snakes. They don't know a whole lot, but they will make phone calls do the best they can. I have used them for minor stuff -- x-rays, medication for mites, etc. For stitches on your copperhead, they would probably do okay, but I'm not sure they would work on venomous snakes. Dr. Bink will. He and I have discussed it before. I don't have a phone number for him, but do an Internet search for Animal Medical Clinic and you'll find his number. If you need to contact me, just give me a call or shoot me an email.

Robert Preston
383-0998
rnhpreston@charter.net