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DAYTONA PIT REPORT 2004

BILLY Aug 21, 2004 01:25 PM

This year was definetely different. The trip to this year's Daytona Expo will be remembered by me, my lovely wife, and plenty of others due to the devastating effects of hurricane Charley. My thoughts and prayers go out to those who have been affected by this catastrophe. In my opinion, since this post is about the pits I saw in Daytona, two people I need to take note of:

Jim/ Home Grown Herps....please let us know as soon as you can about how things are with you. Jim had his home severely damaged by the hurricane and was forced to leave the expo early on Sunday.

Alec and Robert/ Peace River Herps....these guys left the Expo immediately after it opened on Saturday morning to assist their elderly neighbors who had their homes affected by the hurricane. You guys needed to be noted and I applaud your willingness to help others.

Due to the storm, of course not everybody who was either attending or selling at the expo may have been in the best of moods. I tried to be happier than I may have shown myself to be. What could you do, ya know? I tried to make the best of things and of course, so did others. The attendance on Saturday could have been better, but what would anyone expect due to the storm?

On a lighter note.....I will now talk pits and what I saw and got at the show!

My first hour and a half was spent picking out my first jani. Yes....that was very long but buying a snake that you have no clue whatsover how they will turn out to me is a very hard thing to do. Not much motivation on my part to instantly spring forth the money for a dull, brownish and yellow snake. LOL! I went to every vendor I could find with jani. The prices ranged from $75 to $125. I had the great opportunity to meet Steve G., a regular poster on this forum and who has a love for jani. He was kind enough to give me some pointers and saw the jani I picked out. I purchased my jani from Suncoast/ John Schmitt. He had the prettiest ones there in my opinion, and for $100, I thought it was a good price. John was great to talk to and also had the best albino Sonoran gophers there, screaming with yellow, white, and intense red. His graybands ( my other love ) were brutal with color as well. That was one thing I regretted not picking up, and of course, my wife heard ALL about it. LOL!

Then....I picked up two Ocean Co. northerns from John Meltzer. A nice black and white with light brown-reddish saddles and a killer red phase northern pine. I have never seen a northern pine baby with this much red, and he had two in the clutch that hatched out like this. With more red than a baby Okeetee corn, this snake will be promising to watch grow up.

As always, Meltzer had some other killer locale pits as well. Wisconsin bulls, Kankakee bulls, and Saw ( ? ) county yearling female bulls, which were painful to not buy. Also, he had an adult cape that was not only the only adult cape I saw there, but was very nice as well.

As I was speaking about my new red northern pine, I will talk about the red bulls I saw! There was a ton of bulls from red bull clutches at this show!!!! I had the pleasure of meeting Tony D. and about had a heart attack when he handed me his adult female Crumbly line red bull. That thing was awesome!!!!! So much color!!! Very nice!!!! I wish I could have purchased that one bull! Yeah.....keep dreaming!

All these bulls from the red bull clutches were killer to say the least, regardless if they were going to turn out red or not. Some babies, you could see the red, others you couldn't. One red bull baby in particular, had as much red as most adults I have seen. I went to go get a snack, sit down and rest for 5 minutes, kept thinking about that snake, then decided to go buy it. Nope. BAM! Gone! AUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That will teach me to wait!

I love both lines of red bulls out there and eventually wish to have one of each. I did pick up a Ginter red bull after the show back at home, and now wish to get a Crumbly line one in the future. I could have grabbed one there, but had others snakes in line to buy. Yes.....it would be nice to be a millionaire and be able to buy EVERYTHING your heart desires!

There were some black pines there, most had a substantial amount of pattern. Also...one clutch of deppei was seen. I saw my first Sunglow hypo ( is that the correct term? ) sonoran gophers produced by Tom Stevens/Nokturnel Tom. It was great to meet him and talk metal and snakes with him.

Getting back to Jim from Home Grown Herps, he had the most unique looking Southerns I have seen. They were in no way normals, but very hypo-ish and very cool. Almost a lavender or chocolate color on some. He posted a pic of the clutch a few weeks ago. I was very tempted to get one, and anyone into Southerns should inquire about them.

One albino southern I saw there was from Mark Bell. Those seem to be so rare these days.

The prices at the Expo were pretty good to say the least. One breeder had some hypo and high yellow bulls left on Sunday and was asking only $35 or so. If I didn't have any hypo bulls, I would have for sure grabbed one. There was one ten year old female jani for only $125. One guy had two very detailed and patterned TX bulls with lots of contrast and high yellow for $60 each. I already have one, but would have surely grabbed one of those if I didn't.

A good buddy of mine, Shannon Brown, scored big with purchasing a sub-adult anerythristic Great Basin gopher for $20! The joys of buying from people who have no clue with what they have.

On the way out of the show Sunday, I picked up a killer Trans-Pecos rat snake from Howie Sherman, who by the way had the best Okeetee corns I have ever seen there. They were yearlings and it really did hurt to not buy one.

I did miss not seeing the infamous Tom James there. Also....Gregg Feaster, go to the next one! I will not quit bugging you about that! LOL!

In all, another great year there and great for pits. Let us all remember those who were affected by the hurricane.

Take care!
Billy
-----
Genesis 1:1

Replies (23)

metalpest Aug 21, 2004 02:10 PM

Sounds like a great show! Despite the storm, still a big even with fantastic herps huh. Did you get any pics of the show? Id like to see some of these animals you talk of...

BILLY Aug 22, 2004 02:10 AM

I didn't get any pics of the show unfortunately, but I will post pics of my new pits I picked up as soon as I can.

Take care!
Billy
-----
Genesis 1:1

Jeremy Pierce Aug 21, 2004 04:36 PM

My families thoughts and prayers go out to the families in Florida as well. Take care to all!

Jeremy

dmac Aug 21, 2004 04:41 PM

from John Schmitt @ Suncoast. It was a snow bull, of which there was several there at the show. John's was clearly much more colorfull-white and pink with bright yellow stripes. John is always (also saw his table at the F.I.R.E. in Orlando) very informative and professional. I just wish I would have bought the snow that he had at the Orlando show, 'cause it was a lot bigger for the same 100 bucks, but you know the saying-YOU SNOOZE YOU LOSE!

Steve_B Aug 21, 2004 07:11 PM

I wish I would have known you were going to be there, would have loved to have met you, the pits were every where, managed to pick up a pair of stillwaters from alec before he left, did you see Craig Trumbowers tri colored bulls, stunning, a pair came home with me, along with a red, amel, and a high yellow hypo, and several of Lee Abbotts okeetees. Maybe in the future we can meet at a show.

BILLY Aug 22, 2004 02:13 AM

Steve....that would be great to meet you at a future show!

I did see those bulls Trumbower had. Very, very nice and you are a lucky man to grab a pair! That adult he had on display was smokin!

The Lee Abbott okeetees were incredible as well! I also was really freaking on his gray bands!

Take care!
Billy
-----
Genesis 1:1

RussBates Aug 22, 2004 06:37 AM

Ghost Sonorans on Napa Valley's table. Although they were brokered animals via Envy (at least I think that's what I remember from talking with them) they looked really killer. I almost purchased one for my collection but instead gave my money to Peaceriverherps for a pair of Hypo Stillwaters. No regrets at all

Talk about rushed.....I'm in the Navy (Seabees) and I'm an officer in charge of a 40 person construction battlion unit and we got put on notice to standby for deployment down to the Fort Myers area for recovery operations. So I had to literally fast walk to every table scanning for pits. Fortunately I ran into Shannon Brown as I was looking and he took me to Alec before they packed up and left. My cell phone went off a few times ,when I could get a signal, and I knew for sure my fun had ended and it was "go time".

Needless to say I was bummed I couldn't take more time and table shop at a slower pace but duty calls. We never did end up going as the mission went to the surrounding National Guardsman...hooyah guys way to go!

One big surprise was that Mark Bell didn't have more pits on his table than he has had in the past. Does anyone know if he's moving out of pits? I bought some killer ones from him in 2001 and he had a large selection.

Looking forward to next year and if anyone has Ghost Sonorans or triple het Sonorans....email me.

Happy Herping,
Russ

Steve_B Aug 22, 2004 09:38 AM

I talked to Kim Bell about the lack of pits, she said they did'nt hatch yet. I forgot to mention Carl from Suffolk Herps, it was an absolute pleasure to talk with him about pits, he had several bull morphs, along with many other pits, one of the true gentlemen in this hobby. I can't believe I was at a show with so many people from the pit forum, and did'nt met a one.

Nokturnel Tom Aug 22, 2004 09:44 AM

As were the Deppei Deppei. The Gophers are Envy stock though, and Deppei are Vivid Reptiles stock. I have 1 Ghost left, and though it is a knockout I have one, the father of that clutch is a Ghost. Did you get ot see the Blizzard? I love those morphs, one of the Deppei I hatched out has some white on it.....not much of course but still....makes me wonder if I should hold onto her for a while. I bought my Jani 2 years back from Suncoast and theyre turning out very nice, glad to hear other people talking about him. Tom Stevens

RussBates Aug 22, 2004 09:52 AM

Tom,
Was that you behind the Napa Valley table? Yeah man your ghosts are awesome. I'm wishing I had them now and at the same age as the rest of my sonorans. The blizzard was really cool too. I once saw a blizzard sonoran that was as big around as the end of a baseball bat and about 5 feet long. It belonged to K&N Reptiles out of Louisiana.

I have 1.1 hybino and .1 triple het from Envy. I would love to get another 1.0 triple het and 0.1 ghost but have not sold myself on spending the cash after buying the hypo stillwaters plus the pits need more room than my milks and corns.

Russ

Passport Aug 22, 2004 10:09 AM

How beautiful is that? What is it? I am new to Pits and as a newbie unable to identify morphs or sub-species. Thanks.

RussBates Aug 22, 2004 01:58 PM

and they are awesome. Mine should be ready to breed next year.

Russ

Nokturnel Tom Aug 22, 2004 12:13 PM

Nope, I didn't spend more than 10 minutes behind the table all weekend. Steve from Napa Valley just did me the favor of helping me out with a few inches of table space. I bought a few snakes form him in the past, all are doing great and he is a really cool guy. I hear ya about Pits and room. They can grow into monsters overnight and really take up a lot of space. I have 1.1 Jani, 1.1 Deppei, 1.1 Sonorans and 1.2 Southern Pines. I'd like some Bulls but man I just don't have the room. Actually I don't have room for anything at all these days with all the hatchlings LOL. I was tempted to keep the Blizzard.....maybe next year c ya Tom Stevens

Tony D Aug 22, 2004 09:43 AM

Okay so I'm a little slow on the uptake! Didn't quite put together "BILLY" from the forum with the Billy in front of the table. Met a few others mentionables from the forum too but with the wheather hanging over us didn't get to socialize near as much as I'd have hoped. All in all though the show went pretty well.

sw Aug 22, 2004 11:46 AM

Went to the show with Steve B and as he stated I too was disappointed on not meeting alot of the posters in this forum that were there. Oh well, but it looks like from all the posts we all came away pretty happy with purchases or seeing some impressive animals. I too came away with a pair of stillwaters from Alec E. along with Tony Dongarra's last female red bull, which was in a shed at the time and you could still see the red coming through.(glad i talked myself into that purchase)I also picked up a albino bull from Kim Bell to go along with the pair of ghosts and a white bull female i picked up from her 4yrs ago.With the exception of Charlie, I was very happy with this show.Here's one vote for everyone at a future show to get together for a little meet and greet as for being from the northeast pit enthusiests are few and far between.

oldherper Aug 22, 2004 09:34 PM

Hey Billy!

I guess I picked up the only ones you didn't see. I picked up a pair of P.m.ruthveni (the only ones I saw) from Don Hamper just after the show opened up on Saturday. I also picked up a pair of P.d.jani and a trio of P.m.lodingi.

I thought the show was excellent even in the adverse circumstances. Wayne Hill and crew did an excellent job of holding things together. As busy as he was, Wayne even took the time to spend about 30 minutes with me to help me locate the show veterinarian (and just sort of B.S. a little).

I wish I had know you were going..I'd have tried to hook up with you to meet you. I met up with a couple of forum friends down there...we had a great time. More would have been merrier...

One thing I did notice was that Drymarchon were obvious in their absence. I saw one little Yellowtail Cribo and that was it...

Gerald
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

BILLY Aug 23, 2004 12:09 AM

Hey Gerald!!

Yeah.....sorry that I missed meeting ya, as that would have been great to do so!

I do now remember seeing one ruthveni at Don's table, and it perhaps one outta the pair you got or perhaps another one he had.

Who did you get your jani and lodgini from? Did it take you as long to pick some jani out as it did me? LOL!

That show was excellent despite the circumstances. Lots of pits this year!

As far as Drymarchon, the only one I ever saw was an adult back in 2000, which was the first year they had the show in Daytona. Other than that.......I did see some nice babies at the IRBA show in San Diego last year in Oct. Only time I ever saw Indigo babies, and they were nice!

Take care!
Billy
-----
Genesis 1:1

oldherper Aug 23, 2004 12:42 AM

>>Hey Gerald!!
>>
>>Yeah.....sorry that I missed meeting ya, as that would have been great to do so!
>>
>>I do now remember seeing one ruthveni at Don's table, and it perhaps one outta the pair you got or perhaps another one he had.
>>
>>Who did you get your jani and lodgini from? Did it take you as long to pick some jani out as it did me? LOL!
>>
>>That show was excellent despite the circumstances. Lots of pits this year!
>>
>>As far as Drymarchon, the only one I ever saw was an adult back in 2000, which was the first year they had the show in Daytona. Other than that.......I did see some nice babies at the IRBA show in San Diego last year in Oct. Only time I ever saw Indigo babies, and they were nice!
>>
>>Take care!
>>Billy
>>-----
>>Genesis 1:1

Yeah, that was them(the LA Pines). They were both in the same container, so it was hard to tell that there was a pair in there. That was the only ones he had.

Yeah, I agonized over the jani and lodingi for a long time...back and forth between the tables. I ended up making a package deal and bought the jani and the lodingi from the same guy (Crazy Fools Reptiles). The lodingi were marked at $75.00 each and the jani were marked at $125.00 each. I got 1.2 lodingi and 1.1 jani for $325.00, so that was $150.00 off the marked price. Not too shabby, I guess. That was my first jani and my first Louisiana Pines. Supposedly the Louisiana Pines are from Terry V. stock. The Black Pines I picked up were the darkest ones I could find. Babies always have some pattern, but these don't have a whole lot. So...I'm raising babies to adulthood again. I now have 3.6 lodingi for my permanent breeder stock, 3 different bloodlines counting these new babies.

Last year I bought a hatchling Yellowtail Cribo from Glades for $200.00. She is now over 3 feet long and eating me out of house and home. I also bought a yearling unicolor from somebody there (I don't remember who) for $75.00, and he's about 5 feet long now and eats anything I throw in the cage with him. Don Hamper had a pair of baby Texas Indigos there last year also. But, you really don't see a lot of Drys at that show. This year seemed better than average for Pits, though. And, if you like Corn Snakes, there were about 87 gazillion of them there.

By the way...2000 wasn't the first year for the Daytona Show...this year was the 15th year. (just a little trivia)

G
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

BILLY Aug 23, 2004 02:15 AM

Ok......then there WAS a pair of ruthveni in that cup!? Me and my wife looked at each other going, " That's weird....why is that labeled a pair when there was only one?" LOL!

I do remember those jani and lodgini if it is the same breeder I am thinking of. Was it the guy beside Tony D. and his red bulls or was it Tony D. himself???? I could be wrong.

Take care!
Billy
-----
Genesis 1:1

oldherper Aug 23, 2004 06:11 AM

>>Ok......then there WAS a pair of ruthveni in that cup!? Me and my wife looked at each other going, " That's weird....why is that labeled a pair when there was only one?" LOL!
>>
>>
>> I do remember those jani and lodgini if it is the same breeder I am thinking of. Was it the guy beside Tony D. and his red bulls or was it Tony D. himself???? I could be wrong.
>>
>>Take care!
>>Billy
>>-----
>>Genesis 1:1

Do you mean Tony Dongarra? If so, then nope....he was on the other side of the show, as I recall...about in the middle of a row of tables? This guy was on an endcap in the row next to Ben Seigel. He had about a half dozen jani and 8 or 10 lodingi, one vertibralis a few Northern Pine babies and a couple of baby Bull Snakes (he did have some Red Bull babies).
-----
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

sw Aug 23, 2004 08:05 AM

I think the table you guys are referring to is the one that had Scott Crumly at. They had a banner but for the life of me i can't remember the name on it. They had red bulls,albino bulls, jani and i think some northern pines and various snakes

oldherper Aug 23, 2004 09:06 AM

>>I think the table you guys are referring to is the one that had Scott Crumly at. They had a banner but for the life of me i can't remember the name on it. They had red bulls,albino bulls, jani and i think some northern pines and various snakes

Yeah, the banner said "Crazy Fools".
-----
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

gofer Aug 25, 2004 12:35 PM

year, it's not looking so good with the new job and vacation time..or should i say lack there of. good money, they just always want me here, lol. Just keep bugging me, eventually i'll make it down there. Thanks for the report...but i can't believe you didn't buy any trans pecos rats from me last year but did this year...jeesh...lol, just kidding man. Please send me some pics of that snake, i'd like to see them.
Have a good one Billy,

Gregg F.

>>This year was definetely different. The trip to this year's Daytona Expo will be remembered by me, my lovely wife, and plenty of others due to the devastating effects of hurricane Charley. My thoughts and prayers go out to those who have been affected by this catastrophe. In my opinion, since this post is about the pits I saw in Daytona, two people I need to take note of:
>>
>>Jim/ Home Grown Herps....please let us know as soon as you can about how things are with you. Jim had his home severely damaged by the hurricane and was forced to leave the expo early on Sunday.
>>
>>Alec and Robert/ Peace River Herps....these guys left the Expo immediately after it opened on Saturday morning to assist their elderly neighbors who had their homes affected by the hurricane. You guys needed to be noted and I applaud your willingness to help others.
>>
>>Due to the storm, of course not everybody who was either attending or selling at the expo may have been in the best of moods. I tried to be happier than I may have shown myself to be. What could you do, ya know? I tried to make the best of things and of course, so did others. The attendance on Saturday could have been better, but what would anyone expect due to the storm?
>>
>>On a lighter note.....I will now talk pits and what I saw and got at the show!
>>
>>My first hour and a half was spent picking out my first jani. Yes....that was very long but buying a snake that you have no clue whatsover how they will turn out to me is a very hard thing to do. Not much motivation on my part to instantly spring forth the money for a dull, brownish and yellow snake. LOL! I went to every vendor I could find with jani. The prices ranged from $75 to $125. I had the great opportunity to meet Steve G., a regular poster on this forum and who has a love for jani. He was kind enough to give me some pointers and saw the jani I picked out. I purchased my jani from Suncoast/ John Schmitt. He had the prettiest ones there in my opinion, and for $100, I thought it was a good price. John was great to talk to and also had the best albino Sonoran gophers there, screaming with yellow, white, and intense red. His graybands ( my other love ) were brutal with color as well. That was one thing I regretted not picking up, and of course, my wife heard ALL about it. LOL!
>>
>>Then....I picked up two Ocean Co. northerns from John Meltzer. A nice black and white with light brown-reddish saddles and a killer red phase northern pine. I have never seen a northern pine baby with this much red, and he had two in the clutch that hatched out like this. With more red than a baby Okeetee corn, this snake will be promising to watch grow up.
>>
>>As always, Meltzer had some other killer locale pits as well. Wisconsin bulls, Kankakee bulls, and Saw ( ? ) county yearling female bulls, which were painful to not buy. Also, he had an adult cape that was not only the only adult cape I saw there, but was very nice as well.
>>
>>As I was speaking about my new red northern pine, I will talk about the red bulls I saw! There was a ton of bulls from red bull clutches at this show!!!! I had the pleasure of meeting Tony D. and about had a heart attack when he handed me his adult female Crumbly line red bull. That thing was awesome!!!!! So much color!!! Very nice!!!! I wish I could have purchased that one bull! Yeah.....keep dreaming!
>>
>>All these bulls from the red bull clutches were killer to say the least, regardless if they were going to turn out red or not. Some babies, you could see the red, others you couldn't. One red bull baby in particular, had as much red as most adults I have seen. I went to go get a snack, sit down and rest for 5 minutes, kept thinking about that snake, then decided to go buy it. Nope. BAM! Gone! AUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That will teach me to wait!
>>
>>I love both lines of red bulls out there and eventually wish to have one of each. I did pick up a Ginter red bull after the show back at home, and now wish to get a Crumbly line one in the future. I could have grabbed one there, but had others snakes in line to buy. Yes.....it would be nice to be a millionaire and be able to buy EVERYTHING your heart desires!
>>
>>There were some black pines there, most had a substantial amount of pattern. Also...one clutch of deppei was seen. I saw my first Sunglow hypo ( is that the correct term? ) sonoran gophers produced by Tom Stevens/Nokturnel Tom. It was great to meet him and talk metal and snakes with him.
>>
>>Getting back to Jim from Home Grown Herps, he had the most unique looking Southerns I have seen. They were in no way normals, but very hypo-ish and very cool. Almost a lavender or chocolate color on some. He posted a pic of the clutch a few weeks ago. I was very tempted to get one, and anyone into Southerns should inquire about them.
>>
>>One albino southern I saw there was from Mark Bell. Those seem to be so rare these days.
>>
>>The prices at the Expo were pretty good to say the least. One breeder had some hypo and high yellow bulls left on Sunday and was asking only $35 or so. If I didn't have any hypo bulls, I would have for sure grabbed one. There was one ten year old female jani for only $125. One guy had two very detailed and patterned TX bulls with lots of contrast and high yellow for $60 each. I already have one, but would have surely grabbed one of those if I didn't.
>>
>>A good buddy of mine, Shannon Brown, scored big with purchasing a sub-adult anerythristic Great Basin gopher for $20! The joys of buying from people who have no clue with what they have.
>>
>>On the way out of the show Sunday, I picked up a killer Trans-Pecos rat snake from Howie Sherman, who by the way had the best Okeetee corns I have ever seen there. They were yearlings and it really did hurt to not buy one.
>>
>>I did miss not seeing the infamous Tom James there. Also....Gregg Feaster, go to the next one! I will not quit bugging you about that! LOL!
>>
>>In all, another great year there and great for pits. Let us all remember those who were affected by the hurricane.
>>
>>Take care!
>>Billy
>>-----
>>Genesis 1:1
-----
Gregg F.

www.greggsrb.com

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