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Well, my unknown beauty surprised me and produced a shed sooner than I expected. The scale counts, for any of you who are interested, are as follows:

Ventrals: 291
Subcaudals: 122 or 123 (I had a heck of a time counting those)
Dorsals: 25

The counts from Schulz book, posted by Terry, for the blue and ridleyi are:

ridleyi: v-285-305, sc-105-122, and d-25
blue: v-276-293, sc-91-103, and d-25

Terry also reported that in Schulz book it states that grabowskii has a reddish tongue, ridleyi has a reddish or reddish-brown tongue, and the "blue" has a reddish-brown tongue.

My snake has what I would describe as a red tongue.

Unfortunately I don't have scalation data for grabowski, so maybe Terry or someone else who has the book could check on that subspecies so that I know if I can rule it out or not.

Due to the subcaudal count and tongue color, the blue seems to be out. And due to the pattern, I don't believe I have a ridleyi. However, a number of people told me that they have seen blue beauty/ridleyi crosses that looked just like my snake, so that seems like a distinct possibility.

So at this point I am leaning towards the hybrid described above. However, as stated above, if someone could post the scale counts for grabowski, perhaps I can be more certain.

Anyhow, thanks again.
Steve

Per Schulz

Grabowskyi
275-285 ventrals
102-114 subcaudals
25-27 dorsal rows at midbody

That's interesting how low Schulz's limit is for blues which he only refers to as "ssp".

As a (in)sanity check, I picked up a blue shed I had lying around:
276 ventrals
120 subcaudals
25 dorsal rows
Give or take.

HTH

Also,

Schulz described the E. taeniura ssp. (blue beauty) from only three specimens. There's probably a lot more data available now, and hobbyists could add info by recording the data they observe.

ASAMOF, there wasn't a very large number of t. grabowskyi to describe that subspecies either.

I'm surprised the speciman in question has such a large number of subcaudals. That's a very long tail. Which ssp. is that characteristic of? And this speciman is pretty young too, isn't it? I wonder if the color/pattern will change with age?

Terry

>>Per Schulz
>>
>>Grabowskyi
>>275-285 ventrals
>>102-114 subcaudals
>>25-27 dorsal rows at midbody
>>
>>That's interesting how low Schulz's limit is for blues which he only refers to as "ssp".
>>
>>As a (in)sanity check, I picked up a blue shed I had lying around:
>>276 ventrals
>>120 subcaudals
>>25 dorsal rows
>>Give or take.
>>
>>HTH
>>

Terry,

It seems that you and I were writing replies to the same post at the same time.

>Schulz described the E. taeniura ssp. (blue beauty) from only >three specimens.

Your comment above addresses one of the questions I put forth in my reply.

>ASAMOF, there wasn't a very large number of t. grabowskyi to >describe that subspecies either.

Probably not, I know it's hell trying to get pictures of them. I have mananged to get pictures of all the described ssp (I think), but I only have one picture that is said to be Grabowskyi.

>I'm surprised the speciman in question has such a large number >of subcaudals. That's a very long tail. Which ssp. is that >characteristic of?

Yeah, with the length of the tail I sort of expect this is a male. As to which subspecies it's charactristic of, ridleyi is the only one I can think of. Although the blue described in the post we both replied to was pretty close.

>And this speciman is pretty young too, isn't it? I wonder if >the color/pattern will change with age?

Yeah, I posed a similar question in my reply. As to age, I've had it for about six months, and I think it was about six to twelve months old when I got it. In another couple years I'll post some more pics so you can see how it looks then.

Well Schulz's table shows friesi, mocquardi, schmackeri, and ridleyi all max out in the low 120's for subcaudals, and yunnanensis is right up there at 120 max. The only three with ventrals that high, however, are grabowskyi, ridleyi, and (blue). These three particular subspecies are from the most southern regions of Asia of all the beauties; Schulz refers to them as "group 2". The three specimens Terry mentioned were collected from mountain ranges in Burma and Thailand.

When I have time I'll do some more scale counts. AFAIK my beauties are all captive bred so I have no idea of the origins.

Jon H.

Thanks for the info. That's interesting that the subcaudals on your blue were as high a number as they were. One has to wonder though how large a sample size Schulz used to come up with his numbers, as well as from how many different localities those samples were taken.

Anyhow, with that additional information, it looks like I can safely eliminate Grabowski. I should have figured I wouldn't have been so lucky. Oh well.

So unless I find anything to suggest otherwise, I am going to assume this is a cross between a ridleyi and blue and be done with it. I'll be interested to see what the coloration is once it reaches maturity.