Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am assuming that it would most likely be a boomslang, but arent mambas rear fanged? I am just curious. I know hoggies arent very venomous at all, but what about FWCs? how dangerous are they? I am only asking out of curiousity. Thanks for your replies.

-----
"raised by a cup of coffee"

1.0 ball python- Azazel
1.0 columbian boa- Brooklyn
1.0 red blood python-Hiss
1.0 peach phase thayeri-Sancho
0.1 creamsicle corn- Pandora
0.1 partial stripe ghost corn- Raven
1.1 hognose- Pricilla and Odd
0.1 russian tortoise- Manja
0.1.1 leos- Boji and Kodama
0.1 beardie- Indie
1.0 BTS- Griffon
0.1 Iggy- Sunny
0.0.2 Red american toadlets with 0.0.7 legs total (er, i have one w/3....)
0.0.1 gray tree frog toadlet
0.0.6 land snails
0.0.2 millipedes of unknown species from TN
0.0.1 spotted slug
5.3 bettas
0.1 pacific parrolet- Mishka
1.1 cats- Cairo and Oberon
2.3 ratties Rizzo, Bounce, Bree, Blitzkreig, and Zelda

>>I am assuming that it would most likely be a boomslang,
The boomslang is certainly the one I would consider the most dangerous.

>but arent mambas rear fanged?
No, mambas are elapids.

> I am just curious. I know hoggies arent very venomous at all, but what about FWCs? how dangerous are they? >>2.3 ratties Rizzo, Bounce, Bree, Blitzkreig, and Zelda

Neither of those has particularly toxic venom. However, if a very large specimen gets a very good long chew, enough may be delivered to cause some moderate symptoms. This is pretty much the full envelop of the symptoms and the snakes are very unlikely to cause a severe envenomation. Life-threatening envenomations would be extremely unlikely (excluding protein allergy).

Cheers
Bryan
-----
Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Australian Venom Research Unit,
University of Melbourne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Population and Evolutionary Genetics Unit,
Museum Victoria
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.venomdoc.com

I all my navigation in the net, I would guess Boomslamg, parrot snake(Thelotornis)and Mangrove snake(Boiga dendrophila)

boomslangs and twig snakes would be the most "toxic" as far as colubrids go, mangrove snakes are somewhere in the middle of the boiga toxcitiy range. there is another snake that used to be commonly kept in the 70s-80s until a bite cuased some kids very serious problems but i cant remeber the name of the snake
-----
tree boas all the fun none of the venom

Mangroves and FWC's (though they should be respected) don't even belong in this conversation. However, the Rhabdophis (Keelbacks) definitly do. That is probably the snake refered to above that was considered harmless (the Red Neck R.subminatus) till a boy in California was nipped.

For the title I would have to say it's between the Twig and the Boomslang.

Frank
-----
"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

>>Mangroves and FWC's (though they should be respected) don't even belong in this conversation.

I agree. While the Hydrodynastes are very large snakes, the venoms is rather weak (it'd take well over 100 milligrams to kill), the venom yield small and the amount actually delivered even smaller. The Boiga venoms are very very toxic, we just put out a paper showing that they are as toxic as death adders and other elapids. The maximum venom yield is 20-30 milligrams but the delivery isn't too crash hot so the average nip won't get much in. A prolonged chew certainly would but except for outsized feral snakes chewing on babies in Guam, it is extremely unlikely enough venom would be delivered to cause a clinically significant envenomation let alone a life-threatening one.

Here is a link to the neurotoxicity paper
http://www.venomdoc.com/downloads/2004_BGF_colubrid_neurotoxicity.pdf

> However, the Rhabdophis (Keelbacks) definitly do.

Very much so. Lethalities have occurred. Philodryas is another documented genus capable of life-threatening envenomations. Large psammophiines such as Malpolon, Psammophis and Rhamphiophis should also be treated with caution.

> That is probably the snake refered to above that was considered harmless (the Red Neck R.subminatus) till a boy in California was nipped.

This is a good example that while the vast majority of 'colubrids' are harmless despite being venomous, not all are and we don't know all of the dangerous ones. So, if a new 'colubrid' comes onto the market that is big and seems to really favour using its venom for prey capture (being accompanied by large maxillary fangs is also a tip off) then the snake should be treated with some sensible caution. With the exception of very large fanged snakes such as boomslangs, twig snakes etc., most 'colubrids' can be safely worked with by simply wearing gardening gloves and a long sleeve shirt.

Cheers
Bryan

>>"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."
-----
Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Australian Venom Research Unit,
University of Melbourne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Population and Evolutionary Genetics Unit,
Museum Victoria
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.venomdoc.com

I nearly bought a twig snake at a herp show a few years back without knowing that it was venomous. The show was divided up and all the venomous was on one side. When I saw a guy free handling a twig snake on the hots side I assumed that he also sold nonvenomous species like many other vendors. He was going to give me one for $25 no questions asked. Glad I passed on that one!

Arent twig snakes rear fanged and lethal?

I didnt notice anyone address the mamba issue, so Ill let you know. Mambas are front fanged elapids, just like cobras. Rear fanged snakes are colubrids, and for the most part, are unevolved as far as venom delivery and potency. Of coarse, as with every rule, there are exceptions; boomslangs have rather large rear fangs and a potent venom.

as far as delievery goes yes colubridea are not quite up tp snuff with viperdea and elapidea but dont underestimate boiga as well as any other snake in the colubridea, like bgf said they have the same venom and toxicity levels as death adders or other elapids they just dont have the venom yeild or efficiancy of a viper or an elapid
-----
tree boas all the fun none of the venom