Reptile & Amphibian Forums

If someone had sent you a dragon that you weren't supposed to get (switched out with a dragon of lesser color etc.) then when confronted said that the dragon was in shed and the pattern which had broken white bars across the back and the one you had recieved had solid white bars across the back had changed that drastically in one shed even though it was supposedly in shed when he took the pic, would you say you were ripped off? Also if this person had said he wouold take the dragon back when he returned the following week from Daytona decided that he wouldn't because he had been informed that it was acting funny and showing signs of a disease that your previous dragons had. Even though the dragon began showing signs the 2nd day after arrival. (not to mention the small size of 7.5" at he said 3 months at first then said 9 weeks later)... What would you do?

I'm sending the dragon back and contesting the sale through my credit card company, but he says he won't accept the package and what about the dragon.... I of course have to send the dragon back to contest the sale but don't want it to die if he doesn't accept it at the other end and it is sent back... At the same time I don't want to get ripped off and possibly have to deal with the adeno demon again. Any advice would be appreciated.

Robert Wood
Tulsa, OK
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Edited signature for TOS violation.

Edited on August 22, 2004 at 22:42:25 by phwyvern.

Robert, I've read both sides of this argument between you and [removed name] and here's my oppinion. I don't think that [removed name] is the type of person that would have switched out dragons on you and tried to rip you off. Babies change drastically with each shed as they grow up and maybe that's why it doesn't look exactly like the picture you saw. Also, knowing that you've had adeno in your facility in the past year I would have a hard time taking a dragon back from you as well, the risk is just too great. I'm sure you've done everything right and disinfected everything but the risk is still too great and I know I wouldn't want to put my collection at any risk. I think you may be being a bit head shy on the adeno thing. I know if I had gone through what you have in the past year I would be overcautious as well. I hope you two can work this out in a way that you are both ok with without resorting to legal action or name calling because that really won't benefit anybody.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

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Edited out the name of individual being discussed to keep message in accordance with the TOS.

Edited on August 22, 2004 at 22:49:19 by phwyvern.

Well Sean, I wouold like to think that he is as reputaqble as you say. However, we had a lengthy discussion on a dragons pattern being like a fingerprint on a human here in this forum. In fact there was a thread in this forum with pics of a dragon from baby to sub adult and though the pattern changed a little bit, you could still tell without a doubt it was the same dragon. There is NO WAY a dragon is going to change from haveing broken bars across the back to haveing solid bars in ONE WEEK! I will be posting pics to show what I am talking about. THIS is what I am most upset over. He sent the pic and said the dragon was in shed. You can't tell me as an experienced breeder that a dragon in shed will change that drastically in one week after the dragon has already enetered shed to boot. The color thing maybe but the pattern.... come on.... The dragon started doing this leg twitching thing and also it's head would bob side to side like it was dizzy, coupled with the small size of the dragon (even for 9 weeks which was in the begining 3 months) yeah maybe I did jump to conclusions with the adeno thing, I have been told that the leg twiching could have been calcium deficiency and he has since stopped doing that and I haven't seen the head thing happening either... health issues aside, I'm not keen on being played for the fool by ANYONE.

Can any other breeders tell me that a pattern will change that drastically DURING a shed? I don't think so...... I may not have thousands of dollars worth of dragons, a shiny spotless background on keeping beardies, (mainly because I was forthwright and honest about what happened to me) and I may not have the luxury of knowing on a first name basis many of the big names, but one thing I do have is the truth and honesty on my side. Anyone who thinks differently please let me know your reasons because I think my character speaks for itself. Why would I cause a stink if there wasn't just cause for me to do so?
that would only hurt me in the end.
Thanks for your thoughts Sean and I hope that this works out well too, however, it appears I'm stuck.
Robert Wood
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Edited signature for TOS violation.

Edited on August 22, 2004 at 22:43:54 by phwyvern.

Really sorry this is happening to you Rob. I know how hard that ordeal was on you, and I know you tried to do the right thing in a hell of a tough situation. Do you have pics of the dragon you bought, and the one you received? No, I don't think the pattern would change drastically from one shed to the next.. Color yes but pattern nah.. maybe it would be difficult to look at a baby and an adult, but even in that there are usually some markers in most that are noticeable. How long was it before you contacted him that it was the wrong dragon, and what are his terms of service? Seems it will come down to his tos on this matter. Who brought up adeno, you told him it was showing the same symptoms yours did when they had adeno Rob, or is he not excepting it back because of that past issue you had? I personally would find it hard to accept a dragon back if the buyer told me it showed the Same symptoms his old dragons did with adeno, and knowing mine here are healthy with no symptoms. That would be a tough nut to swallow, but personally if I sent out the wrong dragon I would feel obligated to do something, maybe not an exchange, but some kind of compensation for my mistake. The health issues surrounding this makes it just a terrible situation, because as a breeder or even a pet owner protecting my dragons here is number 1 priority. I am really sorry your first step back into dragons turned out like this Rob. What a shame. I wish you and the dragon the best, and please keep us updated on his health, and the situation
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Webshots photos
www.Mystical-Dragons.com

Thanks for your concern , Matt. I did bring up the adeno issue and I contacted him the day that I recieved the dragon because of the small size. I know by past experience that this is the first sign of adeno.... half of the clutch doesn't grow right so a 7.5" dragon at three months concerned me. The next day we picked it up and the legs began to twitch uncontollably and the head was weaving/bobbing side to side as the legs twitched. At this point I had already called him about it being the wrong dragon and he had agreed to take it back.
He said that he was leaving for Daytona and we'd set up shipping after he returned. I called as a courtesy and told him of the problems the dragon was haveing and told him in a message about my experience witht he adeno and that I was concerned becasue when I contacted him about the size of the dragon he stated he didn't even know what adeno was. Now he's using it as an excuse not to accept the dragon back.
Matt, everything in this dragons cage is NEW. I didn't even have this cage when I went through all that last year I bought from a friend that was moving back in March this year and it was a fish aquarium. Never even seen a reptile. From prior mishap on my part I learned NOT to expose a new dragon to anything you already have. He has been quarantined with the UTMOST care to prevent cross contamination.
I was speaking to another breeder about what he was doing and they said it could be calciium deficiency and after a few days here I haven't witnessed the leg twitch or the head sway again but there is still the size issue.
As for the pics I have to get a pic of the dragon I recieved but still have in my email bin the pic he sent me. I will be posting them as soon as I get that pic to the computer.
You know.... it's 125 bucks.... but the fact that it's not what I was told I'd recieve.... I just can't get past that.... not to mention the fact he would use what I considered a helping hand witht he health issues i was suspecting as a tool against me after he had agreed to take the dragon back. I just didn't want to see someone else go through what I had gone through last year. Like I said, my trusting nature.... darn me.... Now hes saying I'm just trying to get something for free. What a mess.
I'll kepp ya posted.
Robert
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Edited signature for TOS violation.

Edited on August 22, 2004 at 22:44:52 by phwyvern.

If it helps, here is a link to the pics of my dragon from the egg until around 10 weeks old. You can tell the pattern from day one.

http://www.kakadudragons.com/img/KS/
LINK TO DRAGON AGE PROGRESSION

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Signature edited; oversized banner removed. Please update/correct.

Edited on September 6, 2004 at 10:36:55 by phwyvern.

I'm saying when they see the two pics that I'll be posting. The white bars across the back didn't change a bit. The dragon I was supposed to get had broken white bars on his back and the one I recieved had solid white bars. NO WAY it would change that drastically in one week. Thanks for your post!!!

Robert
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Your signature file has been edited to remove TOS violation. [phw 8/22/04]

actually it is possible. stop winning and just never buy from the person again. there no point getting all legal about it.
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sincerely,
Jonathan D. de Kluyver
JDDK Reptiles
Quality Reptiles and Amphibians
www.jddkreptiles.com

>>actually it is possible. stop winning and just never buy from the person again. there no point getting all legal about it.
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Do you have any proof to back up your three lines of wisdom or are you just dropping a line for your buddy? I mean surely you must have proof of your infinate wisdom that goes against what everyone else has witnessed and posted in this forum.... and I still have yet to get any info that was requested in the original post....
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Robert Wood
Tulsa,OK

I was bored so i decided just to type in a bunch of bull poop and mispelled words. sorry i over reacted this morning. I understand your predicament i just think you should contact the BBB or some similar orginazation and then forget about the whole situation. Its a waste of time to argue with the guy cause hes obviously stubborn and isnt gonna listen to you.
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sincerely,
Jonathan D. de Kluyver
JDDK Reptiles
Quality Reptiles and Amphibians
www.jddkreptiles.com

!!!
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Edited signature for TOS violation.

Edited on August 22, 2004 at 22:45:17 by phwyvern.