Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was in the barber shop the other day and got talking about my snake keeping so everyone waiting had a snake they wanted to know what it was and I knew 'em all but one...and i'm pretty sure on this one but not 100%. I'm in Panama City, Florida (northwestern panhandle, just south of alabama). The lady saw a 6 foot long pure white snake, with black bugeyes. She described it to look like a leucistic tx rat, but tx rats aren't natural around here. We do have gray ratsnakes, however. I was wondering are there any wild morphs of gray rats which turn pure white? There always is the possibility that this could be an escaped pet...but I dunno around here.
-----
The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

Battling ignorance one stupid person at a time.

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat(Lola)
1.0 Neonate Black Rat (het for Lic Stk's) (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)

While it's certainly possible to have a bug eyed leucy occur in the wild it'd be a few million in one chance that it would occur. It's most likely as you said, an escaped tx rat. The bug eyes aren't a side effect of leucy, they're a side effect of the ameture breeders that inbread the leucy tx rats so much for leucism that they got a bug eyed version and continued to breed it out.

yeah, but my question first and foremost is can a leucistic come from a gray ratsnake? I really think this was a prior pet, because she said that it didn't even move when she walked right up to it. that would tell me it's been handled a lot.
-----
The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

Battling ignorance one stupid person at a time.

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat(Lola)
1.0 Neonate Black Rat (het for Lic Stk's) (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)

I've never seen a leucy grey rat offered for sale on the pet trade, the leucy black rats are actually intersub-species crosses between black rat and tx rat. This by any means does not mean they don't exist, I just find it unlikely that this specimin was a grey rat, due to the rarity of a leucy grey rat if it existed, one would hope it's owner would keep better track of it

Again, I am not stating it doesn't exist, just in 15 years of morph collecting I haven't seen anything advertised as a leucy grey rat.

I really think this was a prior pet, because she said that it didn't even move when she walked right up to it. that would tell me it's been handled a lot.

Actually, most ratsnakes will freeze and sit motionless if disturbed while out crawling. That doesn't indicate anything of significance. In fact, I would argue that a captive animal is more likely to keep on crawling when approached, not freezing and hoping not to be noticed.

Leucism is a relatively simple genetic anomaly. Remember, the original leucistic TX Ratsnake was wild caught in Houston, as an adult I believe. Leucism has been observed in other species, so it could have appeared spontaneously in a Gray Rat. It is more likely it is an escaped pet, or worse, that someone release some to "stock" a wild population.
-----
Chris Harrison

I'm not sure that gray rats have a leucistic morph either. It is highly unlikely that the snake was a wild one however, because being white it is easy to see for predators.

Florida is heaven for illegaly released animals too. Whether it's escaped animals or let go, they always seem to find food and live just fine (with proper camoflague). In some cases (such as tokay geckos) some actually breed in the wild and are recognized as an exotic species.

One guy found a 18 foot burmese python under his deck about 5 years ago... and they guestimated that it had lived under it for nearly 7 years.
-----
Current Collection:
0.1 Antherystic Elaphe Guttata Guttata - Corn Snake
1.0 Elaphe Vulpina Gloydi - Eastern Fox Snake
0.1 Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta - Black Rat Snake
0.1 Leucistic Elaphe Obsoleta Linheimeri - Texas Ratsnake
1.1 Morelia Spilota Cheyni - Jungle Carpet Python

lol....sadly there are hundreds of various snakes that live in florida that are not native around here nor can survive. I gave that lady my phone # and told her to call me if it shows up again...if it is a leucistic i want it, those suckers run a few hundred bucks! lol.
-----
The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

Battling ignorance one stupid person at a time.

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat(Lola)
1.0 Neonate Black Rat (het for Lic Stk's) (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)

I'd beg you not to breed more bug eye'd genes into the pet trade, but I guess when it comes to leucy tx rats it's a bit too late.

oh no no no i'm not going to breed it, i just want it as a pet...i've always loved the leucistics. i've never bred before...i mean i have a licorice stick and neonate het for lic stks i may try out in a couple years just for the experience but im not starting a big business out of it or anything...
-----
The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

Battling ignorance one stupid person at a time.

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat(Lola)
1.0 Neonate Black Rat (het for Lic Stk's) (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)

I know that breeders cross similar snakes (i.e corn snakes with emory rats), but how are leucistic texas rats produced?
-----
Current Collection:
0.1 Antherystic Elaphe Guttata Guttata - Corn Snake
1.0 Elaphe Vulpina Gloydi - Eastern Fox Snake
0.1 Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta - Black Rat Snake
0.1 Leucistic Elaphe Obsoleta Linheimeri - Texas Ratsnake
1.1 Morelia Spilota Cheyni - Jungle Carpet Python

Leucism is a simple recessive gene, first found in a wild cought TX rat. It has since been found in Ball pythons and ... (I think in burms and BCI?)

The "bug eyes" is also a simple recessive gene, brought out by inbreeding the leucies in order to continue to produce leucies, rather than outbreeding with normals to increase genetic diversity.

It is more common to find a "bug eyed" leucy tx rat than a normal eyed.

Ok I understand... don't think mine is that way though. Even if it is, you can't hate rednecks either =/
-----
Current Collection:
0.1 Antherystic Elaphe Guttata Guttata - Corn Snake
1.0 Elaphe Vulpina Gloydi - Eastern Fox Snake
0.1 Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta - Black Rat Snake
0.1 Leucistic Elaphe Obsoleta Linheimeri - Texas Ratsnake
1.1 Morelia Spilota Cheyni - Jungle Carpet Python

first off let's look at this like the woman who saw the snake did. she probably isn't an expert on snakes. probably is scared to death of snakes. She sees a "huge" white snake with black eyes. Rat snakes do have semi protruding eyes as it is. put those on a pure white back-ground and to a probably scared person with minimal knowledge on snakes and the bug-eyed look is a very likely description. second all morphs start with one animal from the wild. are they likely to live to be adults, probably not. but it has happened in the past. snakes with alot of white do exist i.e. northern pine snakes. I myself live in sw fla and see the outcome of released exotic species everyday. spiny tailed iguanas, green iguanas, cuban anoles, ball pythons, burmese pythons, retic pythons, tokay gekos, quaker parrots are just a few of the exotics that have breeding populations in the state of florida due to illegal releases and escapes. when or if you find the snake keep it get an actuall description, and if not a leucy tx start your own line of grey rats. thanks everyone
-----
2.0 het pied
1.1 het albino
1.7 normal
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 damn taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!