Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm having a hard time understanding a few things. First is all these people that frown on cross breeding. If it was not for cross breeding there would be alot less snakes(boas) that people could not ooh and ahh over.
Examples are: snow boas, ghost, sunglows, albino motleys, sharp sunglows are just a few. Breeding tiger boas, blood boas. These are just not all natural occuring morphs. We are manipulating the occurences of such animals. It maybe a money thing and it may not be. Do you really think in the wild you would find a purple patternless boa???? I think not.
I believe there are enough purists breeders out there that can and will help maintain the integrity of certain species. Be it surinams, peruvians, hoggs and others. Some people just are not into hybrids, that's a fact. But by the same token some are. Have you ever swapped a 289 out of a mustang for a 351? Same principal.
I went through the classifieds and found: Mexican x Argentines, Hypo x Argentines, Hypo x Hoggs, Surinam x Albino, and Peruvian x Hoggs ans Salmons x Argentines. It's out there, face facts. This is a hobby for the most part. If you are into conservation god bless you. Do you really think we can re-populate the Hogg Is. Boas? They probably wouldn't take them. It's up to the purists to keep the lineage going, and for all to represent the animals for what they are. This is a hobby/business where your word should hold true to what you are selling. It's a buyers market. If you don't want it, dont' buy it.
I have not meant to piss anyone off with this, it was just something on my mind. I love a sweet surinam, peruvian, but a albino motley is rocking! This was just my $2.00 worth of observations.
James C.
-----
IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

.
-----
IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

I feel you are absolutly correct!I have been doing this for a year now,an I set back an read everyone or alot,I should say argueing over this morph an that one an whos crossing what,an that boa is ugly an so on!You get the picture!But you are right!!!Even though I am just a peon in this hobby,I am still smart enough to know that alot of these boa's that are being sold in todays market would not be here if it were not for crosses!An another thing that really pisses me off is some of the bigger breaders making fun of how a new person posts his or her boas!Hey GRANPA YOU GOT TWENTY YEARS ON US NEW COMERS AN ONE DAY YOU WILL BE ON A CANE AN WE WILL BE WHERE YOU ARE TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!An not every breeder out their is like that,their is alot of really kool people out their that dont mind taking the time to help someone out!But an this will probably get deleted but its true,VERY TRUE,Their are some people out their that are assholes!Excuse my french!I get tired of watching some of the bigger guys make fun of the way someone words their add,or if a question sounds dumb or a person needs to read more!Maybe that person didnt understand what he or she read!Like for example,I am not here to give every person that I talk to an educational lesson!Well kiss my butt!HAHA Thought I was going to say somthing else didnt you!An if this gets deleted because this is a family learning forum,Then dang it some of the other crap of making fun of people ought to get deleted too!If this message ticks some of you off OH WELLLL!!!IT IS THE TRUTH!!An I appologize!The truth hurts like a motha dont IT!!!!!EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION JUST SOME EXPRESS THEM BETTER THAN OTHERS!Thanks [Hypoboa]

.. by that I mean intergrades and so on, and you like what you see then you are going to keep doing it and not want to hear other opinion. (your post pretty much says so).. And yes, some of those boas are pretty and people will buy them..

I know what you mean by the bad feelings over these things and some of it (the flame-wars) is just excessive.. I'm one of the old guys with the cane (not quite yet!) and I'll try to explain my perspective on the subject..

First of all, understand that you are not doing anything really special making crosses and intergrades, that is the easy way.. try to find matched animals from known locality populations for your projects and then wait as many yearrs as it takes to get results with them instead of just popping something else into the cage if things are going slow.. And people have been doing the crosses for a long time, it is nothing new.. with the improved knowledge on breeding and husbandry many hybrids have been hitting the stores for some years.. so much so that the first hybrids are now mostly forgotten.. and this brings up the real point of the argument (for me, at least).. herpetoculture is serious business to very many people and the idea of making some animal or product just because it looks good to you now or will sell at the next show is foreign to lots of us 'old-timers'.. Where are those hybrids that were such hot news last year or two years ago.. mostly forgotten news, discarded and relatively worthless. To a lot of serious herpers the idea of making a disposable living thing is nuts.. And a good pure redtail is more in demand now (and worth more) than ever before.

A lot of people have a boa or a snake or lizard as a side-effect or expression of what is going on in their life.. 'I've got a bike, I need a burm', or 'mom doesn't want me to have a boa, so I'll get one'.. I don't know where exactly you are in your appreciation of and experience with all the boas and herps in the hobby.. yes, you need to do things your way and have fun.. but i'm thinking as you go forward you will better understand the arguments against an anything goes breeding program.

As I like to say.. we ain't making toasters...
-----
Gus
A. Rentfro
RioBravoReptiles.com
www.riobravoreptiles.com

"Quality is not an accident. Perfectly healthy animals are a minimum requirement.. everything else is just salesmanship" gus

n/p

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![HYPOBOA]

You gonna run tell mom aint ya ...........

Lmhooooooooo!No I am a pretty big boy!We can leave her out of this!But I am mature enough to say I aint going to get to worked up with someone on the other side of a computer either!I was expressing a point!I believe you need to go back an take the time an read what I actually wrote!Because you are proving my point!Its not me that looks like an ass![Hypoboa]

I understand that these forums have a laid back setting, which is nice... no need for every sentence to be complete, but I have a hard time taking ANYONE seriously when they have replaced "and" with "an" in every case that it should be used. You type like you're trying to pull off an "Ali G" style of grammar, but there's a point where it loses its comedy and just becomes pathetic. Like i said, no need to spellcheck, but for the love of Christ... put together something that at least demonstrates a 5th grade reading level.

np
-----
Gus
A. Rentfro
RioBravoReptiles.com
www.riobravoreptiles.com

"Quality is not an accident. Perfectly healthy animals are a minimum requirement.. everything else is just salesmanship" gus

from the purist to the morpher. I think all have a place.
Jmaes c.
-----
IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

I know you wasnt Gus!You have a right to your own opinion an you have some awsome animals an have the right to express you feelings an opinions!But I dont believe in imbreeding hogs an argeys,an peruvians,an I just wanted to express that!My main input on this was the slamming an once again it already has started!Thanks Eric![Hypoboa]

No I am not making these boa's as you have worded it!I feel some of these things are very beautiful!But no I do not own none of them as of yet!I do own a couple of hets!But the biggest part of my collection is normals!Or I should say I believe they are true columbians!I just love the true redtails,but I feel I need s few more years of experience!No if I purchased a hogg island bos I would mate it up with a hog island!My point was all the argueing an belittleing!We are supposed to be on here to learn an view other peoples idea's!Yes everyone has their opinions an the rights to them but!Some go overboard with them!An I have always looked up to the older people,Not only have they got the knowledge,but the experience also!But to leave it got to their heads an not share their information an to down grade people,not me,but any an al newcommer that might come to this forum ain't right!!An I hope you don't need a cane!LOL!tHEIR IS SO MANY TOPICS OF DICUSSION OUT THEIR THAT COULD BE DICUSSED,IF PEOPLE WOULDNT TURN IT INTO AN ARGUEMENT!!!!!!!An beleive me I wanna learn everything that I can!I wanna be where some of you are today!AN BELIEVE ME I WILL BE!!!!I an to dang stubborn not to be!!lmao!Well just my opinion an no hard feelings ment,I DID SAY NOT ALL!They know who they are!Thanks Eric [Hypoboa]

it is my personal belief that the inbreeding of the various species and subspecies of bcc, bci etc . . . is wrong , and i am very against it , but i have no power what so ever over any of those that wish to produce these animals. I do believe that it is just against my moral ethics , but i am not about to tell someone to stop . I for one will not have my animals in-bred with other subspecies , and i will not purchase any of these mutts , even if they do look cool. I hate how look has such a great effect on the hobby these days . So i will go on keeping my animals pure ,and purchasing animals of pure bred lineage , and all of those who wish to inbreed boa morphs can do so , i will certaintly not purchase any , and i think that it would be a good idea for the people in this forum to stop bickering over what others like to do , if they dont want to deal with it , dont buy it , but by stating what u feel others should do , you are bound to start an arguement , so i feel that it would be a good idea if people, and im not stating any of u , but anyone for that matter that has a disagreement of this sort,start acting more to this tone than that of someone who is trying to dictate to others what they should and shouldnt do. I AM NOT NAMING ANY OF U AS ONE OF THESE PEOPLE , and i am definately not trying to start another arguement , i am just stating opinions of mine on this topic in the most civilized way i possibly can. and even though i am trying very hard not to , im sorry if i have offended anyone.
-----
John woodward
JW REPTILES

some people are getting confused with the point of what he meens by crossingh, albino, hypo, anerys sunglows, snows etc. are hybrid crosses they are normally from the same species,. hybrid crossing is the part that people take a argentine and breed it to a suriname it really makes no sense.
People do not have the patience it takes to breed long term to get the results they want from sellective breeding. I don't like the idea of hybrids but I have some , and in order for me to cross my Honduran tiger boas and super tigers into the albino gene, I have to hybrid a Honduran Super tiger to an albino Colombian, I know if I were to wait for it to happen naturally in my collection I would have to produce over 13 milliion babies and then maybe maybe if I am lucky I might produec a pure Honduran albino, but if I were to wait for that to happen I would be passed up by someone else who will make the hybrid cross before me.

So as you can see it is a catch 22

thats my opinion, I don't like hybriding but I can't condem those that do, I simply choose not to buy them.
It is as simple as supply and demand, kind of like the Ford trucks with Harely Davidson, you don't see millions of them but they sell..
Not a true Ford or a true Harley

if people buy em people will make em.

Nick Gancarz
Boa's Ark c.b.r.

.
-----
IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

Thank you for your input Gus.It is important to understand the wisdom behind why we do what we do.I tried to make sure when I started this discussion that it didnt become a flame war.No need for that.Intergradation and genetic abberancies occur in nature all the time.Do they survive,usually not.I think the same can be said in herpetoculture.When that first anomaly occurs,it becomes the must have thing.Several years later,its old hat.As I turn 40 this year one thing stands out-the more things change,the more they remain the same.The circumstances around whatever endeavor in life we enjoy may change,but our perpesctive will always determine how we experience something.Crosses are here to stay simply because it is our human nature to toy with things.It will always be something different were crossing.To me beauty is the simplicity of what was created to begin with.Maybe I am becoming an old fart(but I can outrun my 20 year old and benchpress over 400 lbs)so who knows.Peace to everyone and no matter what we all are the "weirdos" that love snakes.Marcus

I myself am sitting the fence on this for now.
What I mean by that specifically is; I intend to produce some Salmontines, but I will only do it using a PROVEN super-salmon. I don't want a bunch of space garbage in the world with my name attached. That's my .02 pesos (centavos?)

snakepimp.com ~ We have fly girls.

-----
Jeremy J. Anderson
No one in the world ever gets what they want, and that is beautiful. Everybody dies frustrated and sad, and that is beautiful.

np
-----
Gus
A. Rentfro
RioBravoReptiles.com
www.riobravoreptiles.com

"Quality is not an accident. Perfectly healthy animals are a minimum requirement.. everything else is just salesmanship" gus

The only issue I have is when breeders pretend that they came up with a new spectacular morph WITHOUT cross breeding, that they somehow magically produced a boa that looks just like it is the product of cross breeding without actually doing it.

The bigger problem for me is all the boas that are NOT advertised as 'part' Hog when they are, or all the boas sold as pure BCC when it seems that there are visual 'tells' that indicate otherwise. I saw a few posted in the past week here that seem to be BCI/BCC and are being posted as BCC.