Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was wondering if there was any inland taipans in America?

CrazyCody

Just because you don't see an animal for sale, or see a person bragging about his animals, does not mean there aren't any in private collections. I've seen threads where a person claimed that PNG Taipans (O. s. canni) were not bred in private collections, before last year, (and then by only one person) HA! Thats a bunch of BS. Alot of people who keep, and breed this kind of stuff don't bother to come to KS & get ragged on, or asked rediculous Q's (they do it because they like the animals, not the attention).
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Chad Bachman

We recieved 2.2 last march. These probably being the only "legal" ones in the country.
Australia has/had a really bad smuggling problem, so I would not doubt that there are some in the private sector. the reason they are not ever really advertised that people have them etc. is more likely they don't want the attention from law enforcement.
Anyway, we do have them on exhibit as well as Coastals and New Guinea Taipans.
Bachman is correct the PNG Taipans have been bred numerous times in the U.S.
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It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens

www.reptilegardens.com

Isn't there a pair of inland taipans in S. Dakota? Or was it N. Dakota?
If australia would allow a set amount of reptiles to be exported to breeders (or breed them locally for export) they would not have any more problem with smugglers then any other place. They make their own problems with smuggling. OOPS sorry this is the cobra forum.....
It's a shame that we are judged as a whole for things that one person does with there reptiles but its a fact. I got ripped on for the pic below in one of the forums awhile back so I guess I'm guilty too (although I wasn't exactly holding a king like that).

Arik

had some O. microlepidotus for sale on his website a little while ago...a pair for $12,000. They presumably sold pretty quickly, as they disappeared from his site within a week or two. As Bachman and Terry said, because of Australia's stranglehold on native fauna, most inlands are probably smuggled. PNG Taipans are far more common in private collections, at least as far as I can tell.

Yes, It was announced on SHHS that a group in the North Central ( I want to say the Dakotas)US finally got some from the govt. of Austraila by permit. I'll be damned if I can't remember where though.

Al

>>I was wondering if there was any inland taipans in America?
>>
>>CrazyCody

The guy who got them posted above.
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Chad Bachman

Terry Phillip (taphillip)...just clarifying because bachman said the guy above and I didn't want that confused with me...though I would LOVE to have a pair, providing I could afford the antivenom (and the snakes!). As I said before, Hank Molt recently had a pair on his site that apparently sold for $12,000.

As a matter of fact I just unpacked 8 more O. microlepidotus this morning
As well as 7 Australian Eastern Browns and one Western Brown (P. nuchalis)....
Pretty cool stuff and much more to come!
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It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens

www.reptilegardens.com

Get them breeding.

Good luck.
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Chad Bachman

Ta Phillip,

I am curious to who is sending these animals from here to you...one of the zoos or is it venom supplies?

At least you have easy species(the inlands, eastern Browns and Westerns) to look after.
Regards,

Scott Eipper

Easter Browns are one of the easiest species in the world.
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Chad Bachman

all of them are easy, and I hope you Aussies can get some easy species from us as well.

It's a whole different world, and the best of luck to all.
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Chad Bachman

Chad & Terry,

Nothing over here in regards to handling is very hard that i have had to play with, however some species are certainly more...."fun" than others...here my "review" of the species I kept/ played with of relevance.

*Coastals....intially nuts but all have settled after a few months. Can become very food orientated.
*East Browns....very dependant of locality. Southern specimens (Victoria/ Eastern N.S.W) calm down quickly. The few QLD and Western NSW specimens have remained nuts for years.
*Western Browns, Peninsulas, Speckleds, Dugites....Unpredictable some are great others are absolute mongrels.
*Inlands....Everyone I have had/own has been nuts...not sure why? Many collegues animals are quiet. Interestingly thought a usually calm animal is usually fairly nasty while they are below their prefered body temp.
*Rough Scaled Snakes....I have seen one quiet one out of 10 individuals...the others would seemingly fly at you
*Eastern Tigers, most Black Tigers....most are quiet..some are cranky and strike/bluff strike a bit..usually get cranky when they are warm to slightly too hot.
*Colletts, Blue Bellies, Mulgas/King Browns, Chappell Is Tigers....big ones(5.5ft ) aren't scared of people and act accordingly...invade their space and they will defend it...in captivity usually very quiet but very food orientated...and will chew on anything and everything.
*Stephen's Bandeds and other Hoplocephalus....see rough scales
*Red Bellied Blacks/ Copperheads...generally quiet, food orientated, but can become snappy when annoyed.
*Death Adders...can vary from quiet to nuts...most Dajarras and North Qld praelongus are nasty where as most of the Sydney Commons, Barkleys and Floodplain D. Adders are quiet and Deserts, Hill Adders and South Australian antarcticus are in between.

Common sense has to be used...each individual snake like their keeper is different...what I regard as quiet may not be the same for yourself or others. And besides the snakes don't read how they are "Meant to be"!

Regards,

Scott Eipper

I have never had the OZ elapids, just their PNG counterparts, and most (not all) calmed down fairly well over time. The worst venomous animals I've ever kept were Naja melanoleuca, (only ever had one that was nasty, most were great) and the tree mambas angusticeps,jamesoni,and viridis (the Blacks I had were sweethearts).

Thanks for the insight.
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Chad Bachman

Chad,

Never been up close and personal...taken some pics of them but (thats about it). However I have heard about a pair of adults held here (in a collection in South Australia) that are...less than pleasant.
Interesting about the Blacks...I was told a similar thing (They are all out for blood) by many people (not all) about Coastals before I actually got some.
How where the Arboreal Dendroaspis a handful...food orientated, very defensive (serious striking) or just nervous and always wanting to move?

One things for sure..the snakes themselves don't always conform to the way we think they should!

Regards,

Scott Eipper

My D. viridis were the worst of my Dendroaspis. The female was around 8' lond & just always on the move (up the hook like a tree). They were never out for blood, (unless they knew food was near) but were just too long & agile to safely handle on a hook in a small room with lots of cages to get up on. The large aggressive melanoleuca I had was out for blood, and would case me around the room trying his best to put me in the hospital, he was the meanest snake I have ever seen. All the other melanoleuca were well tempered animals that would not even hood.
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Chad Bachman

These are my impressions of the following.

N. melanoleuca...
The potential to be one of the meanest, most agile and terrifying individuals within a species. Most however calm very easily.

tree Dendroaspis .....
I had one angusticeps that was meaner than hell, most are very placid yet a little spooky, Meaning they take flight very readily.

D. viridis
These guys are just plain runners. I have only one here now and he has been here for years, so he is pretty accustomed to the routine but catch him on a bad day and watch out. someone I know had a D. viridis run up a 30" hook, his arm and over his shoulder before he could drop the hook.
Jamesons
These are thinkers! Watch out for them. I consider them to be the most dangerous mambas on the longterm.
Blacks
these of course when straight from the wild can be the worst snakes imaginable. Large, fast, agile, bad tempered and smart. They are not nearly as irratic in movements then all the others. As well as being very ill tempered and will very readily strike at your head--repeatedly--. I have a 10.5 foot male here now that is just a demon, even after regular weekly hooking for over 3 years now. I can work around him no worries, but when you take him out, if you don't get him in the can on the first try, and he starts gapping at you....[bleep] has just hit the fan!

New Guinea Taipans are all nuts when first from the wild, but most mellow pretty readily on a day to day basis.
We already covered the Coastals and inlands.
Taipans also are thinkers, but I liken them to the pissing matches that occur on this forum occasionally. they have the ability to think, yet they tend to act first and think later. And usually in a very unpleasant manner. hahaha

I also don't ever "head" any of the snakes, (there is no real reason too) except for extenuating circumstances.....
Anyway, one time I was deworming some fresh import O. s. canni and "headed" one to run a tube orally and it was like someone turned on the faucet and venom just poored and poured out of the snakes mouth.

they are all cool little critters, thats for sure!
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It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens

www.reptilegardens.com

Yeah, I should have watched my male jamesoni a little better, it would have saved me a trip to the hospital LOL. I feel they are the most unpredictable Dendroaspis.

O.s.canni:
My fresh imports would give me the warnings, but they never followed thru with a strike even. All calmed down very well (one male would still hiss once in a while though).

All the Dendroaspis seem to be worse to handle when more than one person is in the room, (maybe a sign of intelligence) seeming to know that 2 is an added danger to their well being.
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Chad Bachman

I have kept two melanoleuca; one settled down(the female), the male had a fun habit of launching himself from the back of the cage when you opened the door.
Of the dendroaspis, I have only kept polylepis; my male is typical mamba, nervous, flighty, gapy. The female is a total honey, by far my favourite snake, and possibly therefore my most dangerous.
Most forests I have come into contact with have shown the "intelligence" of a mamba, but with a cunning that sometimes needs to be seen to believed.
As they say, not beginner venomous snakes...

I have been working with numerous zoo's for the last couple of years.
We have always had numerous Australian and New Guinea species.
The E. Browns are about 8 inches in length. I have been calling them little poison pogo sticks. Fast little buggers. Much different than the New Guinea counter parts. But we all knew that of course. It would be nice if they were in the 3 foot or larger range so a guy could get ahold of the tail. They are pretty easy though, Nothing like a nice wild caught D. polyepsis or O. canni We are working on many more species that we haven't had in the past.
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It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens

www.reptilegardens.com

The PNG textilis are just like the Aus. textilis. It's the Pseudechis australis of Aus. that is totally different than what was thought to be the PNG version of a King brown.

Hatchling PNG textilis & PNG King Browns (not even close to a true Aus. King brown) are both nasty as hell, but the textilis are much faster.
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Chad Bachman

Chad,
What I was referring to was the fact the PNG textilis are much smaller as adults (and babies), also they are much more flighty and less willing to stand and fight. compared to the Au textilis. I have had over a dozen PNG textilis and none have been more than 3.5 feet as long term captives, nor have I ever had one take a defensive stance or strike at me.
The PNG king browns also are smaller and less defensive.
Scott, I find your rating system very interesting, Our coastals are 50/50 some are total puppy dogs, several are nightmares!
All the collettes have been nothing but slugs turned arrows for food.
Our inlands have been nothing but quiet so far, granted I've only had 4 of them for 6 months or so, the other 8 just arrived last week....?
Death adders, interestingly enough the PNG ones have been much more ill tempered than the AU ones?
the locality on the textilis I find interesting. That sounds much like our Crotalus atrox, most are pretty mild mannered and small (under 4 foot) yet the ones from Star county and Loredo county texas are very large and very dangerous snakes....
It's all interesting stuff!

Say do you have locality on the Colletts in you photo gallery? Ours are in the high end 5 foot range but much blander in color.

Best Regards all
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It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens

www.reptilegardens.com

I've had fresh imported PNG textilis that would s up,hang their mouths open, and do short runs at me, but they did calm down fairly good after about a year. The baby PNG textilis I hatched out would bite "anything" that came near them, but would not eat a damn thing for me. I think the PNG Easterns & "King" browns max out at about 4' in lenght, (like you said 3.5' is a more normal lenght for them though) wich is nothing compared to OZ's Easters & King browns. I think I may have took your post the wrong way.
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Chad Bachman

Terry,

"Scott, I find your rating system very interesting, Our coastals are 50/50 some are total puppy dogs, several are nightmares!"
I almost never "Head" them...I think that has something to do with it...they seem to have a person specific memory mine are quiet and almost never defensive when I handle them...someone else is a different story.
"All the collettes have been nothing but slugs turned arrows for food."
All Pseudechis sp are like that..Mulgas if not more!
"Our inlands have been nothing but quiet so far, granted I've only had 4 of them for 6 months or so, the other 8 just arrived last week....?"
My observations are from my own collection and in a show pit where we had some 30 odd snakes (Tigers, East Browns, West Browns, Coastals, Inlands and Lowland Copperheads) cruising around together...electric blankets where under the floor giving hot spots. If an Inland sat overnight in a cool spot It was cranky as hell until warmed up..then it was like a puppy dog!
"Death adders, interestingly enough the PNG ones have been much more ill tempered than the AU ones?"
Never played with a non Australian Acanthophis
"the locality on the textilis I find interesting. That sounds much like our Crotalus atrox, most are pretty mild mannered and small (under 4 foot) yet the ones from Star county and Loredo county texas are very large and very dangerous snakes....
It's all interesting stuff!"
There is probably more than one species or subspecies within P. textilis in Australia as well as variation among the species. But certainly interesting.
"Say do you have locality on the Colletts in you photo gallery? Ours are in the high end 5 foot range but much blander in color."

That Collett's was about 5 foot at the time of the pic unsure of the locality. I have others here (a 7 ft male, 5 ft Female and 2 5ft males).
There 7 footer is quiet bland, the female an absolute stunner..bright as they come and the males..one is fairly plain the other is really bright. I have no locality data on any of my Collett's...I am chasing a pair (presently) that have that data.
Regards,

Scott

I would like to know how you went about obtaining such specimens from Australia.
While this is not "Elapidae" related, I am aware that the Little Rock Zoological Gardens, in Little Rock, Arkansas, an AZA accredited institution, has been trying for a number of years to trade a group of manned wolves for a single female wombat with the Queensland Zoo, the Queensland Zoo actually initiated contact to this regard.
Unfortunately, the Australian Government would not allow this transaction to take place, though all specimens to be part of the trade were listed with ISIS.
I would be very interested in hearing from you, regarding the process followed, and entity you encountered willing to authorize and complete such a transaction, as one very lonely wombat in Arkansas would be greatly appreciative.
If you have nay information to this regard, please contact me.

Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.526.4856

Not sure if I can help RE: mammals or not? There are more regulations and red tape etc. than anyone can possibly imagine until you have done it. The regulations and quarantine requirements are very different for Crocs and for snakes, so one could imagine the differences between reptiles and mammals!
Basically, with Australia, it is a matter of not taking no for an answer, and have very responsible and reliable (determined) people on the other end of the trade....
My contact info is below if you would like to pass it on to the zoo (or for you for that matter) I would be happy to discuss the process as I know it......
Best Regards,
Terry

605-342-5873
terry@reptilegardens.com
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It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens

www.reptilegardens.com