Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Alot of people start keeping hots with copperheads. So after a few successful years of that what's the next best snake to add to a hot collection? aybe a mellow-er species of rattler?

There is no set formula for getting into hots...it really depends on how comfortable YOU are when determining the next step. Some people like to take baby steps. Some people like to take giant leaps. Either case can result in good or bad results. I have heard of people aquiring elapids shortly after getting into hots and have been bite free for many years after that. Then again, there are people who do the same thing and end up dead. A very generic answer would be to go for a slightly larger, more aggressive pit viper or something of the sort. But like I said, the dependent variable here is YOU, and how comfortable YOU are with keeping hots. I would suggest getting as much info as humanly possible on your species of interest, and if possible, working with someone for a bit who has said species is highly recommended.

I'm by no means an expert.That being said , I'd stick with something that you can get antivenin for. But my .02 I'd go with a mid sized neonate Crot like a viridus or maybe a small atrox .Your skills can grow as the snake does.If you have any doubt in your skills then a Massasauga or a Rock rattler may be the ticket.But some of them can be a real handful.

That's a very difficult question to answer because there is no set progression from beginner to advanced; all snakes are capable of inflicting a lethal bite and for that very reason, no venomous snake should be labeled a "beginner" snake. BUT, a copperhead is certainly a great choice for a first time hot because they are hardy, are relatively easy to manage, and very few people have died from the bite of a copperhead. As far as a next venomous species to work with, it will depend solely on what you are interested in. When I look back at how my professional herp career evolved, particularly as it related to the keeping of venomous species, I did start off with a southern copperhead which then led to several smaller species of rattlesnakes such as massasaugas (NOT the easiest snakes to handle!), rock rattlers, and a larger species such as a timber (they can get quite large but tend to be fairly good natured; but a bite is a life threatening emergency). As my interest in venomous took off, I began working with several species of arboreal vipers such as white lips, various Atheris, Bitis and a few others. I also developed an interest in Cerastes and my current collection even includes some elapids including a jameson's mamba. This didn't come overnight and was a culmination of many years of training and professional experience. Don't rush the process....just continue to master basic management skills and make sure you have a good mentor who is a skilled practitioner.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm, Lake Forest, IL

I do think that the overriding, dominant fctor in deciding the "next step" is the keepers' confidence and competence. Some people are perfectly satisfied never going beyond the "first hot" phase, while others accumulate quite a collection over the first few years....I'd say that if someone did their research and felt experienced and comfortable enough to keep a new species, then only they can say when the "right" time to "progress" is...

All that being said, my opinion might differ here with the "mainstream", as I wouldn't necessarily recommend a "calm" species as a next hot. I'm assuming one is familiar with the basics of venomous husbandry here. I would personally recommend something a bit more on the "testier" side...(Perhaps an atrox or scutulatus.) My reason for this is because one of a keepers' worst enemies in the snake room is complacency....We all "get to know" our charges so to speak, and this can lead to our doing irrational and quite stupid things that we wouldn't dream of doing with a snake fresh out of the field. (I know I've done some knuckle-head things in the past,(i.e. not locating the head of a snake before opening a cage, not securing a barrier between you and a snake before retrieving a water bowl, etc.) and I'm sure if we are honest, quite a few of us have.)

I simply find it a little harder to get complacent with a PO'ed crote staring at me and making as much noise as he can from a defensive coil than with a "calm" crote that basically sits there like a lump on a log. Remember, complacency is the enemy...

-Kris

I agree,Ive been cocky lately,thinking 20 plus yrs experence,lets me know it all.WELCOME TO REALITY.I own 30 or more hot snakes in my collection,but recently aquired a pr of "venomoid"please save the fire,these are the only venomoids Ive ever owned,and I got them in a trade),banded egyptians,one is over 10 feet,and as big around as a coke can.while unpacking them the female grabbed the head of the male,and after a long struggle ,I got my "educated" hands in it.thinking I had a safe grip,the female dropped the male and contorted her head,embedding her fangs in my index finger,howling in pain ,I struggled to free it.I decided to relax as it was a "venomoid"and allow it to release,it didnt.She struggled for a new grip taking my entire thumb !I managed with help to get a specula under her upper jaw,and release the grip of the fangs on my thumb,however I needed to painfully "roll my thumb to free it from the bottom teeth.needless to say,everyones back in their cages,and my thumb is severly bruised,and looks like hamburger,I have a bruised ego,and I cannot believe the jaw pressure,all over a foolish lack of judgement.
my sugestion is this,view some bite photos,re examine your skills,and be sure your ready to move up,if this snake had been venomous,the 2 or so minutes of my thumb in its mouth,would have meant my death.
yes Ill still keep hots,but surely,I wont get overconfident again
please NEVER MISTAKE SKILL FOR PRIDEit can be costly.
Terry

By all means, post pics of this monster with something for size comparison! If it truly is over 10', or 10' even or slightly under, you may very well have a record, at least for a captive haje in the US.
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Chance Duncan

I have also heard of 10' specimens of haje & melanoleuca. It's possible.
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Chad Bachman

and thank you for your responces. I agree, complacency is definitely the enemy. And although I am far far from expierenced or a pro I have realized fear is one of my best friends. Not to the point where I'm shaking and may make a nervous mistake but to the point where I am very less likely to forget the little things that matter so much. And this is with so called "beginer hots". Thanks for the advice, I'll let you know what I decide.