Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I rescued a Eastern Box Turtle from the road yesterday. The development in the area has takin away his home. She is about five years old. She shell is about 8 inches long. She is healthy and in good condition. I live in a apartment building. An outside habitat is possible given the raccoons around here cant get into the enclousure. I really do not have room inside for the turtle. I have a small amount of space and alot of critters already (enclosed animals). Any advise you can give me would be appreciated. She seems to like it in our apartment. I can see that it is an intelligent animal. She just wanders our apartment all day. I have done some research on food that she would like to eat and will be going to the store today. I know that I cannot release it into the wild because it will just wander in search for home. I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan. If you have any adoption ideas or animal rescue in the area please let me know as well.
Hope to hear from someone soon with valuable information regarding my turtle issue.

Actually, you should release it into the wild. Box turtles do pretty well in neighborhoods even. Just get it as close as you can to where you found it, and find a suitable quiet spot to turn her loose (where no people are directly watching you) and send her on her way.

I would release the turtle you found where you found it, otherwise you are in violation of your state's laws.

http://web4.msue.msu.edu/mnfi/data/specialanimals.cfm

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12145_12201-60648--,00.html

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12145_12201-60656--,00.html

Drop me a line some day.

Bill Griffin

I would release her, in the same location, as far away from any road/people as possible.

8" is huge for an eastern female - are you sure its a box, and not another type of turtle?

Bill Griffin

Im sure it is a female, and an eastern box turtle. Where i found it has high construction right now. The road has exploded with houses being built. They build about four 500,000 & up houses every two months. The road is consumed with development. They have heavy equipment digging up one lot while the other lots around them have houses being built. Around 50% of the houses are now built with lawns. The other land around the houses is not woods anymore.....its the golf course. Are you sure that I should release it where I found it??? I know that the turtles like to be in their "area", but what if the area is taken away from them??????

Your in a tough situation. I see where you are coming from, however by keeping it you can get in more trouble than what it is worth. If I were you, I would try to find an area near where you found her, preferably wooded with a water source, even better if you can find one with other turtles around. However, box turtles can live in developed areas, I have 8- (that I know of maybe more) wild easterns in my back 2 acres and I live in a subdivision. Either that, or you can contact you DNR and ask them what to do if you did find a box turtle in that type of setting-dont incriminate yourself. If you need more ideas, feel free to drop me a line.

Steve

Yep that is a tough situation, unfortunately it sounds like your laws wont allow you to keep it. I think that releasing it into that area would have disastrous consequences. Is there any herp rehab. places that you can contact? How about the law makers? I really don't have a good suggestion - it would be terrible for such a large female eastern being killed.

Bill Griffin

whats even more confusing is the fact that the developers are often permitted via the dnr to destroy animals via incidental take permits, maybe not intentionally, but nonetheless. Heavy machines destroy everything. So seeing that her habitat is being destroyed and she would probably be destroyed in the process, whats the problem with individuals keeping them? Sadly enough, I believe MI's laws were made to prevent collectors from ravaging areas of animals. Reptile laws are often double edged swords.

Steve

What about idea of taking it somewhere else and releasing it??? My Parents live up in Carson City on a farm and there are woods all around there. There are water sources via streams and creeks. Could I release the turtle there in hopes that it will make a new home?? I really want to save this animal. What do you think about releasing it somewhere else? This would be 50 miles north from us.

Have you ever found any other easterns in the area? If so, I don't see a problem. If there is not any other easterns in the area, releasing her won't really benefit her or the native population at all. If I remember right, Eastern Boxies are more common in the upper part of MI than in the lower part. I will talk to a couple others in your area that are involved with wildlife conservation and management and see what they have to say.

Steve

Any box turtle you find on the road, live or dead, you can assume it to be "dead". If you put it back in the neighborhood, it WILL try crossing the road again, and next time you will probably not be there. If its not the road, some neighborhood kid will just take it home and put it in a box or an aquarium full of water. You can't release it in another park, because box turtles are territorial and have taken years to learn their environment. If you put it elsewhere, it will wonder, not eat enought to survive the winter, and 80% of the time (from a PA study) will die. So, your choices: 1) put it in the lot and let it get hit by a car, 2) let a kid find it, 3) take it to a park somewhere else and let it die of starvation or other aliment.

I remember seeing box turtles on road ways all time as a kid, especially one 60 mi road between philly and the shore. Past 10 years, I had not seen any. Last weekend, I found one! With its head crushed by a car! The point is, box turtles that cross roads are likely to be killed. A turtle must survive 50 years and produce 100s of eggs, for one or two to survive to adulthood. Disrupted environments like new housing units, increase the size of their predator population reducing likely hood of them living to adulthood. Predators like possums, skunks, raccoons, crows, mice, chipmunks, etc all flourish near human habitats. Also, road mortality. These variable disrupt the delicate natural balance between turtle and nature and in 100 years, there will not be a box turtle population there no matter what. The construction already destroyed the long-term survivablity of the turtle populations in that area. My recommendation: give it to someone who breeds them so their offspring can reduce pressures to catch them.

Your home does not have suitable humidity for the box turtle. It will eventually become ill and die if not provided with a damp substrate and 70-80 humidity.

I had a friend who beleived like many here about keeping them in wild if found on a road. Two instances changed his mind. 1st was a turtle that he put back in the woods every week. One day he left to work late, and found it dead in the street. Another time he was driving to work, saw a box turtle in the street from far away, pulled over to get it, but next group of cars came, none stop, and one swerved to kill it near the shoulder of the road. Now, he sees my point. How will you feel to see that same turtle dead on the same road you found it? Its your choice.

Mark

I agree with almost 100% of what you said. But I would release it back to where I found it. You have to figure that the turtle is at least 10-25 years old correct? The street it was crossing has probably been there for most if not all of its life. (unless it is a new subdivision)
You have to give them the benefit of the doubt, by removing that turtle you guarantee 100% that that turtle will NOT produce any offspring that will go back to the population. If only one of the offspring survived that in turn could keep the population viable. So generally I would suggest getting it back to the spot where it was found crossing.

Maybe if it were a gravid female, I would suggest holding it till it dropped the eggs. Once she drops the eggs let the adult go where it was found. Incubate the eggs, and let the babies go in the area where the adult was found.

Cheers,

Chuck

Chuck,
It would have been nice for you to read what was going on before passing your opinion. If you had known the situation you could have formed a opinion of which had value. Im sorry you wasted your time writing what you did.

HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY!!

Honestly, you are the one who has failed to understand this situation 101 . . . the eastern box turtle is a protected species in Michigan. That's the bottom line. If you want to do what is right for this turtle, you will contact the appropriate officials and quit attacking everyone who disagrees with your handling of the situation.

e

http://www.bio.tamu.edu/users/heather/Edition2/News2c.htm

I understand where you are coming from and what you are saying, however are you saying that she should say forget the law, take a chance on getting slapped with a ridiculous fine and be marked as a wildlife offender? I have had my incidents with wildlife enforcement, and through it all, its not worth it. Just a thought.

Steve

Then send it to someone who will breed it, preferable with its range.

Transporting them across state lines is illegal as well.

Steve

You know what I say... not that you care I'm sure... but I say F the local authorities.

Anyone acting in the best interest of the turtle is above the law in my opinion. the laws were in fact written to keep people from taking from the wild, but the laws written to "save" so many prevent saving even more than they help becuase the only people who really know it's not legal to take them aren't the ones here on the forum.. they are the ones who already have them in a damn shoebox.. or worse, aquarium with water.

Jenn- if you follow the laws here you're sadly dooming the turtle. I'm sure you'll do the right thing...you've already done mroe than msot would by asking what's best for the turtle.

I'll be glad to pay a fine to save an animals life... especailly a box turtle

NP

While your heart is in the right place for wanting to help this turtle, an eight inch box turtle is not a youngster. They are very intelligent and inquistive animals. They adapt readily to changes in their environments, including housing developments. Will the turtle stray onto the road again? That's hard to say but animals die in the wild all the time. That's just life as hard as it may be. To keep an animal captive that's spent it's life in the wild is just cruel. That's why there are wildlife laws in most states dealing with it. I have rehabbed forty-three turtles in eight years hit by cars and lawnmowers or grabbed by dogs or whacked by weedeaters. When I release them, I have no way of knowing whether that same turtles will wander into exactly the same situation all over again but that's the world we live in. We can't take every animal into our homes that we are scared might be hit by a car or otherwise injured by human negligence. Wild animals belong in the wild. They have a place in the ecosystem that can't be replicated by us. Removing them not only affects that animal but the rest of the ecosystem as well.

just my 2 cents,
e

Every domesticated animal came from wild stock at some point. What is the difference of taking a wild goat 4000 years ago and domesticating it and a turtle today. The Turtle Conservation Fund who recently had an excellent article in Reptiles (this month) and is comprised of leading state, gov't and researchers of turtles, promote the cultivation of DIVERSE captive populations of turtle species being harmed by human activities for the future release into the wild (if necessary) should humans find a way to live in this world that does not endanger the survival of the turtle species. You gave very good and descriptive reasons not to release the turtle (road kills, sliced up by lawn mowers and weed wackers, chewed up by cars, or intentional harm). Last time I looked, Cars and lawn mowers were not natural preditors of box turtles in nature 10,000 years ago, or even 100 years ago. If the state is unwilling to mitigate these influences or pass useful laws to curb these killings, then it is our responsibility to take the responsiblity into our own hands. Collecting does little damage to populations verse road kills, construction and destruction of their habitat, lawn mowers, maulings by dogs, or our subsidation of racoons, skunks and foxes. Its time state officials see this and make useful laws.

That's my 100 Bucks!

Mark

RIGHT ON!!

Im taking the turtle to my moms house and we are going to build a sweet habitat. I am going to travel five mile road as much as possible and take any turtles I see near the road or in it. I will add it to the collection and maybe they will have babies and release them into my moms 30 acres and hope that the population will flourish. I get so ticked off about this law and that law. More people need to care about our enviornment and our nature. My son and I are always picking up litter and helping animals across the road. I see these people swurve to hit critters on the road and it makes me so sick. I am glad that people out there do care about my turtle. It will have a good home at my moms house and she dosent care if the "authorities" come. SHe has had a couple of fines for wildlife rescue already. She rescued the animals, brought them back to health, and got in trouble. I dont understand that. I guess people like us need to petition our local govt to make different laws. They just did it for sodomy in texas to gays could get it on , why couldnt people like us get the wildlife laws changed.

jenn

While the Turtle Conservation Fund is right about promoting captive breeding programs, do they also promote the taking and maintaining in captivity every turtle you see on the road? I think if you wrote them or called them and asked, they would tell you that's a bad idea. Where does it end? How many turtles do you take out of the wild before there are no more in the wild? How many turtles can you remove from the habitat and not make a lasting impact on the entire ecosystem in which that turtle lives? It isn't about saving the turtle or the whale or whatever cause someone happens to pick up, it's about the whole environment and good, bad, right, wrong, for better, or worse humans are part of that environment.
By the way 2 cents is all I need!
e

I love it!!

A real good issue for discussion...

see the fact is here that there is not enough research done on the species to have a "scientific formula" to determine if a particular turtle is safer moved off the road.. or moved into a home....

you can argue either side... keeping or relaseing but the fact is there's not enough efforts being made to determine the best way to know what is really bst for the turtle.

With all the research I've done (and this makes me no where near an expert on this)... and all the studies I've read and places I've found turtles.... here's what I think....

If there are woods where you foudn the turtle... as in a sizeable chunk.. bigger than a football field (or two)... the turtle is generally safe... even if it's a catch basin for water surrounded by smaller area of woods... as long as there is a wooded area dense enough to retain moisure in the heat of the summer the turtles will be OK.. If you dig 2-3 inches and find moist soil (not wet.. just moist) then it's OK... another good sign is leaves.... if there's a leaf litter floor to the woods... it's safe...

the only exceptiosn would be the proximity to outside dangers... developments (not houses... but developments), busy roads... if 2-3 cars pass in the 5 minutes you're with the turtle you find.. golf courses (because of pecticides for the greens), or other outside dangers... for each danger I'd double the size needed to deem the area "safe"... And if it's a busy highway with more than 1 lane in each direction... check to see how easy it is to get on the highway... this is a huge concern...
one other thing to keep in mind... box turtles avoid steep slopes... a road on the side of a mountain is not a suitable place for a turtle...
And the last note... Studies have show that moving a turtle as little as 800 yards (8 footbal fields) will almost certainly ruin any change it has of ever finding it's home again.... Moving a turtle 1 block is a death wish... moving a turtle a mile should be a crime.

Thank you Joshua!!

The turtle that I found on the road that they extended. The road that goes through, $85.00 / a round, golf course. A road that is building houses, $800,000.00 houses, faster than I have seen houses go up. A road that used to dead end at the woods. The extension of the road is longer than the original road. This turtle was probably lucky to make it to the road, and even luckier that my son and I cared to stop instead of not caring. My mom and I built it a 8 X 6 foot enclosure that has a pond with rocks around it, food that we planted for her, a burrow, a grass pile, and feeding spot. This turtle will be happy. It was a happy turtle in the first place. Im sure she was greatfull for her luck. She ate nothing at my house but at my moms we dug worms and she chowed down. She ate like 6-8 worms. I know that she will be happy out there. If there is anything you can tell me about what I can tell her to help care for our new family member. We watered the area really well. Thanks again for all the input.

Jennifer

By the way....My son named her SNAPPY
Snappy is pretected from preditors by Jake, the watch dog.

I appreciate all the feedback from you all. I am going to take the turtle to my parents house which is further north. There is water and alot of land up there. I dont know if there are any other box turtles there, but we will hike around and see what we can find. There is alot of farm land there but alot of woods as well. My mom wants to build something for it in her yard. Like the habitat sites I see on the web of outside enviormnents. I think that I should release it into the wild if no one wants to add it to their collection for breeding. I guess that is all I can do. Maybe more turtles will emerge from the development needing new homes as well and can release them in the same spot. Where I live used to be the country, now there is development every where you look. I feel sorry for the wildlife.