Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I received a trio of bosc hatchlings(?) about a month ago. Two of which were very active and inquisitive with healthy appetites and wouldn't hestitate to bite if cornered. Anyway the other was pretty dehydrated upon receiving it and couldn't keep its food down, so i separated this individual and put it into quarintine with an ambient from 79f to 84f degrees and a basking surface of 131f with humidity at 70 percent in an effort to rehydrate this animal. Oh, he also has a large water dish changed daily and is on a moist dirt substrate with 4 pvc pipe hides and immatation Retes stack for thermoregalatory purposes.

My question is if too high of a humidity can cause skin problems?

I ask this question because i've noticed with this particular individual that its scales have began to to fall off! When reptile shed,they shed their dead skin as they grow to expose their new but with this one there doesnt seem to be any new scales underneath thus my concern.

He/she is no longer dehydrated and is growing, eating, drinking, basking, digging and passing normal feces so in that aspect it appears healthy but this skin thing i beyond my experience, so im wondering if anyone else has ever seen, heard or even read about such a thing?

Well just thought i'd ask here but i'll see what my vet has to say when i take my little one in tomorrow.

Thanks

Cheers all
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0.0.1 Varanus Salvator (Gator)
0.1.3 Varanus Exanthematicus (Adisa "long term captive" other 3 "yet to be named hatchlings"
2.0 Ferrets (Chaos & Kasha)
1.0 Cat (George)

70% humidty is not all that high it should not effect your bosc in that manner. If you have the cage soaking wet all the time then yes blisters will appear and your animal can get a bacteria growing on his scales. This leading to scales rotting and falling off. I have only seen this with weakened animals.

Healthy vibrant strong monitors seem to last through anything.

>>70% humidty is not all that high it should not effect your bosc in that manner. If you have the cage soaking wet all the time then yes blisters will appear and your animal can get a bacteria growing on his scales. This leading to scales rotting and falling off. I have only seen this with weakened animals.
>>
>>Healthy vibrant strong monitors seem to last through anything.

Hi, Jody

All 3 were kept in pretty much exact setups and the other 2 are huge compared to this one with no skin problems. Another reason i separated that one from the other 2 was the fact that they didnt allow it to eat and it appeared extremely stressed.,

Im really not sure what the cause of this is but i'd have to say that this particular animal could fit comfortably into the category of "weak". The enclosure is not soaked otherwise the humidity would be 100% and i haven't observed any rotting on the skin, but i did look closely at some skin that was near falling off and it was almost like a scab= very dry brittle appearance.
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0.0.1 Varanus Salvator (Gator)
0.1.3 Varanus Exanthematicus (Adisa "long term captive" other 3 "yet to be named hatchlings"
2.0 Ferrets (Chaos & Kasha)
1.0 Cat (George)

It sounds as if it is weak. the lack of growth etc. is probly masking an underlying problem of poor immune system.

Once the immune system is weak alot goes wrong and odd things surface.

Another note I do have a male flavi cross i had recieved with a skin problem. it appeared to be stuck shed when i first got him. I have now had him close to a year and with humidity high and all the rest of his body shedding normaly his tail still looks the same. Instead of shedding normally it seems to shed the entire tail and it is crisp. I tried helping him once and won't do it again I peeled off almost a half inch thick piece of skin off his tail. It looked painful so rather then do that I keep his cage clean, humidity up, and try not to let his immune system get weak.

I tried treating his tail with ointments but it did not do a thing. Maybe this is the type of dry skin your seeing in yours?

I thought you meant like blistery skin bubbling up.

Yes! Thats the type of dry skin im seeing here.

I'll let you guys know what the vet says about it but im no big fan of meds for my herps so if she suggests some sort of medication im gonna have to pass unless this is life threatening.

Hopefully it'll take care of itself but who knows? This by far the stranges thing i've had to deal with.

Thanks for help even though im still in the dark as to what could cause such a thing.....hmmmmmmmm... Maybe i'll ask Sam. I wonder if he has a book about why this occurs or has ever seen a similar situation in wild monitors.

Cheers Jody

James

it seems they are thinking of the first thing I thought of. If it is like my flavi cross it is not a fungi or bacteria. drying up the cage will not help as the shed skin sitcks to that area and it will make it worse.

If it were blisters, etc. as I mentioned the first time and others have said now. Well then I would go along with their methods of treatment. But as you said it is not blistering.

Let us know what your vet has to say about it, although I take most vets word with 0 meaning.

b v
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0.0.1 Varanus Salvator (Gator)
0.1.3 Varanus Exanthematicus (Adisa "long term captive" other 3 "yet to be named hatchlings"
2.0 Ferrets (Chaos & Kasha)
1.0 Cat (George)

Hi James,

Sorry, I haven't seen anything such as you're describing in either wild or captive monitors, and without a photo (and maybe even then) it'd be tough to be definitive. I'd say the vet is your best bet.

If I was chained to a burning post and made to guess, I'd suspect a skin fungus, partly from what you're describing and partly because the lizard isn't dead yet. Rapid growth of lesions would point more toward some staphlococcus-type bacterial infection. Either could result from poor husbandry before you got the animal, and it's likely not recovered enough yet to knock it on its own -- the immune system tends to crap out last, and is harder to restore than body weight or water balance. At this point the critter may be starting to fight back, but might also need some help. See what the vet says -- a topical antifungal cream like Tinactin ain't overmedicating in a situation like this.

I don't want to start an 80-post thread here, but one of the several reasons why I like using UVB bulbs on monitors is that UVB wallops most fungi and bacteria that are always just hanging around in mulch, dirt, mouse skin and whatnot, looking for something else to eat. Heat alone is just what those skin-infecting varmints want, but heat plus UVB kills 'em.

Good luck, and let us know what the vet concludes, OK?

>>Hi James,
>>
>>Sorry, I haven't seen anything such as you're describing in either wild or captive monitors, and without a photo (and maybe even then) it'd be tough to be definitive. I'd say the vet is your best bet.
>>
>>If I was chained to a burning post and made to guess, I'd suspect a skin fungus, partly from what you're describing and partly because the lizard isn't dead yet. Rapid growth of lesions would point more toward some staphlococcus-type bacterial infection. Either could result from poor husbandry before you got the animal, and it's likely not recovered enough yet to knock it on its own -- the immune system tends to crap out last, and is harder to restore than body weight or water balance. At this point the critter may be starting to fight back, but might also need some help. See what the vet says -- a topical antifungal cream like Tinactin ain't overmedicating in a situation like this.
>>
>>I don't want to start an 80-post thread here, but one of the several reasons why I like using UVB bulbs on monitors is that UVB wallops most fungi and bacteria that are always just hanging around in mulch, dirt, mouse skin and whatnot, looking for something else to eat. Heat alone is just what those skin-infecting varmints want, but heat plus UVB kills 'em.
>>
>>Good luck, and let us know what the vet concludes, OK?
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0.0.1 Varanus Salvator (Gator)
0.1.3 Varanus Exanthematicus (Adisa "long term captive" other 3 "yet to be named hatchlings"
2.0 Ferrets (Chaos & Kasha)
1.0 Cat (George)

Hi monitorman,

I have seen this, and wrote about it in VaraNews many years ago, and it is discussed in Michael Balsai's two books on savannah monitors. It is an artifact of temperature/humidity changes that cause this blister-like malady of the skin. Most of the time it attacks the legs and feet, and consequently they fall off!! I have a pic of a savannah monitor with 3 missing feet, only stumps!! So it is a serious condition. Some ~10 years ago Mike Balsai and I wrote about it, and suggested then, and now, that the humidity be lowered. Remove any substrate until the skin ceases to peel off as it doing, and keep it separated from the other monitors, all other monitors, as V. salvator has got this to in 2 instances I know of...it is a reaction to stress, environment and captivity, and with reduced humidity, cage mates, and good diet and clean water it will recover...

You can read up on it in Mike Balsai's second book on savannah monitors (ca. ~1997?) for more complete details.
good luck,
markb

I currently have him separated from all others and will take out the substrate and lower humidity right now! Is there any cream or anything that can help or will it take care of itself?

Cheers
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0.0.1 Varanus Salvator (Gator)
0.1.3 Varanus Exanthematicus (Adisa "long term captive" other 3 "yet to be named hatchlings"
2.0 Ferrets (Chaos & Kasha)
1.0 Cat (George)

something I have had good success with when my animals developed a lesion or sore, was tetracyclin HCL.. I would give the animal two warm baths, with the Tetracyclin mixed into the bath, a day. I would also clean out/disinfect the cage, and make sure that it is sanitary, to prevent any further infection.

Tetracyclin is not harmful(to my knowledge) when applied topically. In all the cases that I've used it, the infection cleared up within a few days... I do not think that it would be harmful if you tried it on your animal, as the worst it could do is not work..BUt, I would highly recommend gathering some other people's opinions on tetracylin....

I buy capsules of it at the local Aquarium shop, as it is sold in capsules to treat bacterial/fungal(?) infections in fish.. I take one capsule, and empty it into the bath, swilr it around so that it's uniform...make sure the water's warm, then dip the animal in for a few minutes, until the water starts to cool off a little.

But like I said, get some other opinions on whether or not this may be harmful, but in my experience, I have seen no ill repercussions from such baths...

Take care, hope he gets better...See a vet regardless...

bob

thanks Bob, i'll ask around about it. I just cleaned/disinfected it enclosure and place him/her back in with a newspaper substrate for the time being. I have a vet appointment for 11am tomorrow so all i can do now is wait.

Cheers
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0.0.1 Varanus Salvator (Gator)
0.1.3 Varanus Exanthematicus (Adisa "long term captive" other 3 "yet to be named hatchlings"
2.0 Ferrets (Chaos & Kasha)
1.0 Cat (George)

That is Good to know - I used to do that, but had forgotten all about it, and I believe you can buy it as 'ich' for fish tail drop off malady at petco/woolworth/cheap a$$ pet supply centres too...

thanx Bob,
mbayless

Hi monitorman,
No, not much you can do except what I recommended....maybe "Mr. Bombastic" has some ideas? He 'seems' to know everything Varanus, even though he doesn't...only the Varanus themselves have all the answers, and they're not giving them up, easily anyway!

Good Luck!
mbayless

Hi there..

Now, I can't say that i've ever experienced what you are describing, with scales falling off and such, but I have found that when conditions are damp/humid, and there is a buildup of unsanitary conditions(even if you don't physically see any signs of such), the animal will develop sores/blisters/lesions, on its feed/arms/belly/tail, etc..

Using substrates such as sphagnum moss, must be changed thoroughly, otherwise these nasty bacterium and fungi may overwhelm your animal.. Even cypress mulch...basically anything that tends to hold moisture/humidity well, is a prime candidate for this sort of attack. While I still feel that sphagnum or cypress make the best substrates for the high-humidity loving animals that I keep, they are substrates that you are going to have to keep on top of..as damp, soiled areas are a breeding grounds for those such problems..

I actually like Sam's comment on UV as a sterilizer...I would have never thought of using UV lighting for that reason...UV sterilization is used all over the world for aquatic fish, marine aquariums, ponds, etc... in addition to their normal mechanical/biological filtration, to help cut down on any unwanted pests...

But, back to your ailment, I would see a vet, and perhaps change, and dry out the substrate a little bit.Where conditions aren't too damp/wet to allow fungus growth or bacterial blooms.

I wish you the best of luck, hope your animal/s turn around nicely..

Take care,

bob

Hi Bob

The thing is im just using plain old dirt, a few inches or so and its not soaked. I spray it twice a week to keep the humidity up but thats it. As fas as where the scales are falling off, it started at the(top)tail base and spread to the hind legs and now across the top of the back. Everywhere else is intact. I mentioned that it was in a quarantined enclosure which is a ten gallon aquarium with a wood top and the substrate is changes once a week since it tends to drop feces there. I keep that enclosure for that animal cleaner than any of my enclosures because the animal was sickly when i received it.
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0.0.1 Varanus Salvator (Gator)
0.1.3 Varanus Exanthematicus (Adisa "long term captive" other 3 "yet to be named hatchlings"
2.0 Ferrets (Chaos & Kasha)
1.0 Cat (George)

One thing that I can think of maybe trying, would be to bake the soil in your oven, prior to adding it to the cage...the extreme heat should kill off 99% of the fungus and bacteria which might be harboring in the soil... It can't hurt right?

Take care, good luck.
bob

I'm no expert, but I think that the fact of the monitor not being well from the start probably means that it was not as active. If it is not moving around, it is in contact with the moist substrata after you spray on a more continual basis. I would think this would be similar to the way the skin sloughs off your feet if you walk around in damp socks all day. (Gross example, I know, but that's the best way I know to get a foot infection or fungus). You might consider asking your vet about a soak in a mild betadine solution. Just make sure your little one doesn't injest any of the water.

Good luck!

Leslie