Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm going to stain the outsides of my new cages when I build them, and I'll put a bead of silicone around the inside edges, but then I want the inside to just be white (so it's easier to make it brighter). What kind of paint do I use? Should I paint underneath the lighting fixtures or just around them (specifically the incandescent)? Also, those of you that have installed incandescent lighting fixtures inside your cages, are there any precautions I need to make to ensure that there's a minimal risk of fire?

What to use on a cage interior depends on whether the species can scratch and/or how much humidity/direct moisture will be in the cage.

But with that said I'm a firm believer in using something that is easy to touch up or repair. Few cage materials are permanent so often inhabitants have to be removed while cages are repaired. With that in mind I've started to prefer water-based products that dry quickly and have minimal "downtime" for a cage.

Also, I really dislike silicone, I always have. It does not hold up well to deficate, urates, some cleaners, and scrubbing. It's then difficult to go back in and remove it well enough to put down another bead. I have used a paintable, polyurethane based caulk that has worked well.

But MarkG from this forum posted an idea that I really like. He radiused all the interior edges of a Boa constrictor cage with Bondo (a bodyfill product for auto-body repair) and then painted the interior with high-gloss, acrylic-latex paint. At least on the cage floor and first few inches. He may have used a flat for the cage walls.

I think it's a great idea and one that allows for easy repairs. Clean the cage thoroughly, lightly sand, and apply another coat of two of the acrylic latex. Probably only the cage floor will need it. No silicone to reapply and the cage will be ready in less time than most people pair up their snakes anyways.

right now, a bearded dragon and a mali uromastyx, so yeah, they have claws that can scratch stuff up pretty good. I was originally thinking a high gloss acrylic but I wasn't sure. So should I try polyurethane based or bondo? I'd like something I don't have to repair all the time. I'm also going to be making cage liners out of rubber non-adhesive shelf liner for both the cages.

I used an acrlyic based polyurethane (I wanted a clear coat) in my bearded dragon cage. He did scratch up the floor a bit so I went back and covered it with a piece of vinyl flooring which has worked great. The rest of the cage has held up well except for the lower front lip of the cage. He runs back and forth along there when he wants to get out and scratches it up. At least that part of the cage is out of sight, all the visible portions look great.

Oh yeah, I did attach my light fixtures directly to the stained/sealed wood. Or I should say the electrical boxes were attached directly. The fixtures attach to those.

An acrylic latex paint would be much more durable than the poly I used.

The bondo is only for making all of the interior edges radiused, it is not for sealing the cage. I would not use it in conjunction with any sort of shelf liner, vinyl flooring, or other laminates. Only if you're using a colored paint.

Why do you want to paint the cage if you'll be using the shelf liner?

And why non-adhesive?

BTW, a frequent poster on this forum used adhesive backed contact paper for a bearded cage and he says it's held up well for over a year now.

But back to paint, neither Bearded Dragons nor the Mali Uromastysx will be that desctructive, at least not compared to a monitor. You probably could apply an oil-based product and basically never have to worry about it again. The floor probably would be better off with a plastic laminate such as vinyl flooring.

Lastly, I have to at least offer the suggestion that you stain the interior in a lighter color and apply a semi-gloss clear coat. The cage interior would be much brighter than you anticipate and the natural look would go really well with your desert animals.

Here is a cage I built from oak-laminated plywood. Interior and exterior were stained with a somewhat light brown stain. Then several coats of water based polyurethane were applied. The interior had a thick coat of clear epoxy poured on. The same stuff used on bar tops.

The epoxy is overkill for your application, I think an even lighter stain with a clear coat would look great in a well decorated desert cage. I think even this one is pretty bright, and it has nowwhere near the light intensity that you'll use.

Hmm, perhaps the light interior stain might be a good idea. The exterior is going to be birch plywood, and with the design I'm going with, the front is all framed, I think we're going to use oak or something. A really good woodworker is helping me out, so he just has a lot of raw pieces of wood that are 1" thick, and he has a planer, so we're going to turn those into a bunch of 1x2's for the framing. Do you think if I put a med/dark stain on the exterior it will be very obvious that I used different woods for the sides than the front? Will it not really matter?

My original plan for the cage liners was to just make removable ones out of non-adhesive rubber shelf liner, but now I think I may do adhesive shelfliner on the bottom of the cage....or maybe lenolium if I have the extra money. For my uromastyx I will have to still make a cage liner out of rubber shelf liner though, because I plan on having a thin layer of dirt for her (because I like the naturalness of it, and she doesn't eat substrate...unlike my bearded dragon.....she'll also have a nest box with tons of soil to dig in because they're burrowers by nature). When you put dirt in a cage you have to keep water in it so it doesn't turn into dust, and I know water is bad for wood cages, So I want to make a waterproof liner for it to go in...something I can replace when I replace the dirt (once or twice a year). So basically I just stain the interior of the cage and put the clear coat on and everything, and then a polyurethane based sealant around the bottom edges? Or vice versa? Then lastly put in the adhesive shelf liner or lenolium?

Thanks for the help. Are there certain stains I should use? I also have an idea for sort of a customizable basking platform/retes stack that I want to try out...if I use those in the cage setup would it be a good idea to stain them or something? Keep in mind that in the uromastyx enclosure the shelf will be subjected to around 135 degrees of heat every day.

I love birch plywood but I don't think it will look very good with an oak face frame. The two woods will stain to a different shade and the grain will contrast no matter how dark you make it.

Poplar, aspen, or mahogany would be better choices for the face frame. Birch would also work, obviously, if you found some.

I would also make the bottom lip of the face frame a bit more than 2" so it acts as a more effective substrate dam.

I'm not sure how moist the dirt substrate will be in your cage. It can't be that moist for a Uromastyx, though, so I think a plastic laminate of some sort on the floor and an oil-based polyurethane on the rest of the cage should be sufficient.

If I understand your other question, I would go ahead and stain and polyurethane the entire cage, floor and all. Well I guess you won't need the stain on the floor.

Then put down the plastic laminate on the floor, then use a polyurethane caulk along the junction of the plastic floor and cage walls. It won't match the color but your substrate will be deep enough to cover it, I assume.

The only stains I would avoid are the ones that come premixed with polyurethane. These won't work well with birch, IMO.

Here is a picture of my GF's bearded dragon cage. Birch plywood with a mahogany stain. Look over on the side where the basking light is. The glowing red look is really what the cage looks like.

I'd go this dark or darker for the exterior and lighter than this for the interior.

You might also notice that I don't have a face frame on this cage. Instead I have two strips of 6" wide birch plywood stretching between the two sides. Cheaper than a face frame and no worries about matching. Also hides the lights nicely.

If you go back to the picture of the oak cage you'll see I did the same thing. But with that cage I added some inexpensive molding and corner rosettes to give a finished look.

This provides a more open look to the cage if you're using sliding doors. The moulding on the oak cage also hides the glass edges a bit. A look a like and allows you to cut your glass track short which allows for easier cleaning.

A couple of points:

With that Bearded Dragon cage and the oak cage, both are 49.5" long. I have the 4' spans of plywood between the sides which makes them this long.

This makes it much easier to fit 48" light fixtures into the cage. This is important as they are likely better for the animals (brighter), more readily available, and the bulbs are cheaper. Less of an issue if you're using mercury vapor bulbs.

Also, consider making your cages without a plywood floor. I do this all the time. Then I just staple a piece of plastic directly to the bottom of the cage and then caulk the edges.

This saves weight and makes the floor very easy to change. It also saves money.

I have never done this with a cage longer than 49.5". With longer cages having an actual floor probably adds a lot of structural integrity to the cage. I don't know what the limits would be length-wise. But it works great for cages in the 4'x2' range which is about ideal for Beardes Dragons and Uromastyx.

Cheap showerboard also works for a "floorless" cage but it is only 48" wide so you have to put in a nailer for it to attach to a 49.5" long cage.

I'm not even sure if oak is the wood he said he wanted to use. I'll call him and ask, but I actually think he may have had a different wood in mind. Either way, it doesn't really matter too much to me if the colors stain a little different. My originaly plan was just to paint the whole thing white, just because I didn't really care if it was furniture grade or not. I'll just see what happens. If it is oak, I'll think about just getting a bunch of 8' pieces of 1x2 in one of the woods you suggested.

As for the 2" tall frame, afterwards I may add more of a substrate damn, just because with the design I'm working off of it will be easier to add it in after, if that makes sense? I'm not sure if I'll need it though, because sense the cages are stacking, I don't want to put very much substrate in them just because I don't want the floors to warp or anything. With the setup I'll be using, I could put in as little as 1/2" of substrate for the uro (dirt packed down), and either the same or just slate tiles or something in the beardie, because neither like sand, and I'll have digging tubs for them to dig in and make nests in. I just want to keep the weight down. The reason we're doing a framed front is for strength, and because we're using flamed glass doors that will set nicely on them.

Out of curiosity, do the dragons' tank have a false ceiling? I've pretty much decided I'm just going to go with interior lighting for the cages because I just keep lizards now...I figure if I do end up getting a snake for the bottom cage, it won't be hard to just build a cage to go around the lights.

A deeper dam is still nice because lizards will often kick some of the substrate into the door mechanisms. It also adds a lot of strength to the cage. A face frame or a plywood strip will do a lot of keep floors from sagging.

Both of the cages I pictured have false ceilings. The bearded dragon has a 6"x48" opening all along the back of the cage. The oak cage has an opening of 8"x48".

Here is a picture of the false ceiling in the oak cage. Frame is made from 1"x1" stock and covered with screen.