Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Finally, I was able to snap off a decent pic of here while she is gravid.. I decided to use this miraculous thing called a flash...who knew??..hahaha..

Just thought I'd share a pic, as it is very rare to see a bulbous tree monitor... She sure looks unproportionate... Thanks for looking, have a wonderful day...

Bob

Well done, Bob!

I mean, well done male blue tree, but congrats again, Bob.

LOL! What a great shot! I probably looked that uncomfortable and disgusted when I was pregnant! (looong time ago!) You guys just wouldn't understand. Congrats!

Leslie

Congrats Bob! Good luck with her and the eggs!! Billy

>>Finally, I was able to snap off a decent pic of here while she is gravid.. I decided to use this miraculous thing called a flash...who knew??..hahaha..
>>
>>Just thought I'd share a pic, as it is very rare to see a bulbous tree monitor... She sure looks unproportionate... Thanks for looking, have a wonderful day...
>>
>>Bob
>>

Congrats Bob, nice results.

I get the feeling you may be figuring out the key to breeding monitors. I will whisper this so only you will hear, its a secret you know. The key is, a healthy pair, and some basic support. And the real key, continued support.

You will soon understand, all this photo-period, hibernation, Uv bulbs, etc, is merely worthless interference. With a good pair, all that stuff will work, but the funny part is, with a good pair, you do not need that stuff either.

You see, that thing we came up with, "heatum and feedum" does indeed work. That is, once you have a good pair. And it works with and without, the above worthless interference. Sorry, for the minirant, oh yea, that nesting thing is as important. Kinda like birds.

It is like breeding mice, crickets, roaches, dogs, cats, etc. Without a healthy pair, all of these will be hard to breed. FR

Indeed Frank,

I do feel that one of the important ingredients is how to feed them. Many people opt to feed every other day, or 3 times a week, etc... I feed my animals daily, in which all of that energy, can be used towards reproduction, or other things..

However, as of right now, I know that you will disagree with me on this, but I typically see results after a particular manipulation of humidity/rain cycles. That is what I am seeing with these animals.. Since I appear to have a good thing going right now, I am going to want to continue to do so, as i would not like to alter things at all, which would result in them stopping what they are in fact doing.. Perhaps, if i ever get cb offspring, I will muck around, and see if humidity does/does not play a role in reproduction/cylcing, etc.. But as for now, I am seeing results, why change anything?

Perhaps in time, I will be able to fine tune everything, and increase efficiency, as for what they do and what they don't need, but as for right now, I am focused on trying to get some CB offspring, as it would be a better starting point on figuring all of that out, when compared to wild caught adults... They are doing what they're doing in the current conditions that I have, so I do not feel that I should alter anything.....

What a blast this has been/will be on into the future despite having my share of "dammits"... What a rewarding hobby....Take care Frank,

bob

First Bob, Its not about disagreeing, is it??? Its about experience.

One of the reasons I mention generations is, After some generations(depends on how bullheaded the keeper is) A person tends to eliminate the unnecessary procedures. After several hundred clutches of Bluetrees, I am sure, you will have a different belief of whats necessary, then you do now. You will also have a totally different set of rules.

In a nutshell, thats why I fight with people. I have a different set of rules. My rules were honed and shaped by multiple generations of multiple species.

If you are boneheaded enough to keep Bluetrees thru 5, 6, 9 generations. I surely hope, you will have learned more then you know now.

What I feel is very funny is, how some think one clutch compares to hundreds of clutches. If you ask me, the people who think they know it all from one or two clutches, are very very egotistical. I mean to think you know all after one or so, clutches. Thanks for the thread and congrats, FR

Funny how they like to lighten the load by hanging there.

Hey richard,

Is that a recent picture, or has she laid already? They look so funny when they swell up..I've also found that she likes to sleep/rest in some rather unnatural, and uncomfortable-looking positions, while she's "with child"..

Congrats nevertheless...I would sure like to see some baby beccari... I've got three females that are currently in quarantine and progressing by the day... to eventually match up with the two males that I have(which I had originally thought to be a pair...goddamn he/she's....hahaha).. Cheers, and I wish you the best of luck..beccari are great animals..

Bob

Hi Bob,

That pic is from 2002. I kept a pretty large group of beccari for a while to play with. I split the groups into 2 cages, one cage with different light cycles, rain cycles etc., the other without those things. Both groups resulted in copulation, gravid females, some eggs, but no hatchlings.

This is a pic of a different female in a different cage.

Hey Richard,

Thanks for the pics. sorry to hear you did not get any hatchlings from the group. It is interesting that you saw equal results with both situations.. Maybe they do not in fact need things like alterations of rain cycles/humidity....Perhaps if I had more animals, I would experiment a bit, but like I said, since I am seeing results right now, with these conditions, I am not going to alter anything, until perhaps they stop what they are doing.. It would be fun to experiment, to find out their true needs... but that takes both time, and a lot of animals...In time, I would really like to figure this out for myself...

Thanks for sharing... What do you suppose caused the eggs not to develop/hatch, just out of curiosity, as many people seem to have difficulty with tree monitor eggs. Thanks again, take care,

bob

Hi Bob,

If I were you, I wouldn't change things either. There are lot's of ways to do things and the way you are doing it seems to be working.

I think egg health depends on two important factors, health of the parents, and good nesting. I also think I just suck at incubating eggs.

Good Luck.

Seriously, If you look at the history of captive breeding of monitors, you will find, that its not Tree monitor eggs that do not hatch so well, its all monitor eggs.

You will also see, that those who understand the biology of monitors, hatch their eggs no matter what species they are.

If you look at such commonly bred species as Ackies or tristis, you will find the same, not so many hatch. In other words, there is a lot of egg failure in even monitors bred to the upteenth generation. Of course, those with experience have little problem hatching them. Those without, often times fail.

Its fun to watch, but those that have trouble(like Rsg hahahahahaha), seem to have trouble across the board) and those that don't, are very much the opposite, have success, across the board.

Personally, I will take any species of large eggs(that includes your tree monitors) over any species of small monitor eggs. They are soooooooooooo much easier. The reason is, there is lots of room for error.

I think perhaps, you should ring up the fellas in indo and europe(prasinus breeders) and ask what their hatching rate is, and compare that to someone here breeding ackies. I bet, ackies have a higher percentage of loss. but then, they lay so many more eggs.

About indo monitors having eggs that are hard to hatch, again, thats a joke. just look at Goons rudi eggs, she hatches them on a shelf, no incubator, in the sun, or partially in the sun, with no hatching experience, and still manages to hatch a fair percentage. It seems the truth is, you have to have hatchable eggs in order to hatch them. And well, most Indos are leaf nesters compared to dirt nesters. But most keepers of indo monitors, think they too, should be nested in dirt.

You know if I nested my Lacies and Croc monitors in dirt, or even, any store bought junk. I would not have hatched a single one. Thanks for considering this. FR

I've got dozens of ackies that don't think incubation was all that easy. The fact they are so prolific about breeding and laying just give me alot more to kill, which I do (unfortunately all too well and complete).

Off topic, but red ackies have kind of large eggs (compared to most odatria) right? Do you consider them small monitor eggs?

-Robert

I don't think that red ackie eggs are large compared to larger monitors. Of course I haven't seen a ton of eggs but I can tell you that they are very small compared to most larger monitors. Kimberly eggs are about 3/4 of the size of red ackie eggs though and I am told that pil eggs are quite a bit smaller than kim eggs.

About hatching and keeping ackies I think we think similarly on the point that we try to let them live well. However people that are interested in just babies or think that babies are the end all end all of monitor keeping typically keep them on shavings with a nest box with peat moss in them and many of them are doing very well. I DO NOT CONDONE THAT but it is what it is. I wonder if its about getting incubation down and not as much about nesting atleast with breeding ackies. I would rather be safe on both sides.

Argus Eggs

Red Ackie Eggs

(I know the pics are different sizes but the egg difference is still obvious enough)

Would love to see a comparison of peachie and ackie eggs.

andrew

Peachie eggs are pretty big as well, but not quite argus size. I was asking if he was only referring to things like caudos, gilleni, and storrs, or if red ackies fit in the picture. Argus are not odatria.

--Robert

haha, yeah argus are definitely not odatria, lol.

got ya now. andrew

Hi Robert,

The difference between large monitor eggs(varanus) and small monitor eggs(odatria) is not restricted to size of the egg, but to other abilities as well.

It seems varanus eggs can take more abuse then odatria eggs. They take more dehydration then odatria eggs. They take a greater variation of temperature, then odatria eggs, etc. For instance, Lacie and Albig eggs, can be laid in ant hills in the sun, dehydrated until they look like a rasin(sultana) and still hatch. Try that with odatria eggs.

I have only had one exception, we dug up V.caudolineatus, eggs that were shriveled like a rasin and they too hatched. But they are the only odatria eggs that have done so for us. Thanks FR

thanks Frank, hopefully I will get this odatria incubation down pat. I certainly get enough eggs to do so.

cheers, andrew

n/p

Congrats Bob!