Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Mainly because all I have is a description, no picture. I am Secretary of my local Herp Club and often get emails to ID local snakes. Usually pretty easy: Garters, Eastern Milks, Northern Browns, Northern Waters... Not many types of local snakes so it's not usually too hard.

I received an email to ID some hatchlings, originally from PA. I am not up on PA snakes so not really sure. Here is part of the email. I'll post pics if he emails them to me or if we meet so I can see/photo the babies. I'm itching to get my hands on one of these if they are native to my area and legal to own. I do public demos and love to have animals that people might actually see in the wild.

"My son found five snake eggs at our camp in a log we were about to burn. we brought the eggs home they hatched. we have taken them to markhiem pets and they said they were ringnecks. I dont think so. They were born black with white bellies they have all shed once now and are a greenish brown mostly green though solid color on top with a whitish yellow belly. they like to stay perched up in a small plastic plant I put in the tank. I could send you some pics or meet you and show these snakes. We live in north tonawanda the snakes were found near P.A."

What do you think? My initial thought was Garters, but aren't most Garters Live Bearing? Do any lay eggs?
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Lyns Lair
Frogwatch USA
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose Snake (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow / Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Anery Corn Snake (Suezo)
0.0.3 Eastern Milk Snakes (no names yet)
0.1 Golden Greek Tortoise (Sunshine)
0.2 Mississippi Mud Turtles (Squirt & Shyanne)
1.0 Green Iguana (Norbert)
1.0 Whites Tree Frog (Trevor)
2.0 Solomon Island Eyelash Frogs (Chompy & Gimli)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.5 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Mystique, Freckles, Dotty, Zipper, Twister)

Sounds like the Smooth Green Snake: Ophoeodrys vernalis. Though the adults are bright green, the young are dark-olive or bluish-gray, about 3 1/4 to 6 1/2 inches long. Sound about right?

Yeah, that wasn't so hard. Got to be Opheodrys. See if they don't chow down on small crickets. ~~Greg~~

Thanks! I'll let him know to try Crickets. I'm glad they found the eggs before putting the log in the fire! Quite a rescue story! I'll post pics of the little ones if he sends them to me, or if I can weasle one of the babies away from him. I don't like to do wild caught, and some of the native species are legal to own but not legal to breed or sell, so it's hard to get them. I'd been wanting an Eastern Milk for quites some time. Then as luck (well, my luck, not the snakes luck) would have it, an Adult Eastern got badly injured and dropped off at a vets clinic then turned over to a friend of mine for care and possible release. She laid eggs a few days later and they hatched, that's how I got the 3 baby Easterns I now have. Thanks again for the fast answers!!!
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Lyns Lair
Frogwatch USA
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose Snake (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow / Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Anery Corn Snake (Suezo)
0.0.3 Eastern Milk Snakes (no names yet)
0.1 Golden Greek Tortoise (Sunshine)
0.2 Mississippi Mud Turtles (Squirt & Shyanne)
1.0 Green Iguana (Norbert)
1.0 Whites Tree Frog (Trevor)
2.0 Solomon Island Eyelash Frogs (Chompy & Gimli)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.5 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Mystique, Freckles, Dotty, Zipper, Twister)

They may be too young to tell, but if the scales are keeled it is a rough green snake. It is certainly one of the two though...
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Current Collection:
0.1 Antherystic elaphe guttata guttata - Corn Snake
1.0 Elaphe vulpina gloydi - Eastern Fox Snake
0.1 Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta - Black Rat Snake
0.1 Leucistic elaphe obsoleta Linheimeri - Texas Ratsnake
1.1 Morelia spilotac cheyni - Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Tiliqau scincoide - Blue Tongue Skink

I am in PA and they definately sound like they are Eastern smooth green snakes. The rough green snake is all but extinct in PA now.
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Reptiles
0.1 - Early 2002 Anery Motley Corn 33 1/2"
1.0 - Late 2003 Yellow Rat Snake 15 2/3"
0.0.1 - 2003 Banded California King Snake 29 2/3"
1.0 Green Anole
0.0.0 House Gecko
0.1 Painted Turtle

Mammals
4 female ferrets,1 male cat and 1 male doberman...and a few kids!

RIP - Nala my Rottie 08/19/2004

Rough Green Snakes hatch out fairly green. Smooth Greens hatch out gray/brown and turn green (in most of their range).
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Chris Harrison

They are the only snake that I know of that change color (rather rapidly) after death. Brillant green in life, after wards they are blue-black. Kinda makes keying out d.o.r.'s interesting.

~~Greg~~

Actually, Western Ribbon Snakes do the same thing. In life they have a greenish wash to the light parts of the forebody that turns blue after death.

The one in this pic looks a little blue already, but that is a color artifact on the pic. It was green in life.

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Chris Harrison

>>They may be too young to tell, but if the scales are keeled it is a rough green snake. It is certainly one of the two though...
>>-----
>>Current Collection:
>>0.1 Antherystic elaphe guttata guttata - Corn Snake
>>1.0 Elaphe vulpina gloydi - Eastern Fox Snake
>>0.1 Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta - Black Rat Snake
>>0.1 Leucistic elaphe obsoleta Linheimeri - Texas Ratsnake
>>1.1 Morelia spilotac cheyni - Jungle Carpet Python
>>0.1 Tiliqau scincoide - Blue Tongue Skink
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1.0 Corn snake (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes (MO locale)
1.0 Eastern Yellow Belly racer (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Yellow rat snake (Dwight Good stock)
1.1 California king snake (Coastal phase)
1.0 Prairie king snake (KY locale)
0.1 Black king snake (KY locale)
0.0.1 Eastern Milk snake (KY locale)
0.0.1 Eastern/Red milk intergrade (KY locale)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

They are in PA but VERY rare.They are usually seen,if at all in the far southern part of the state.
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Reptiles
0.1 - Early 2002 Anery Motley Corn 33 1/2"
1.0 - Late 2003 Yellow Rat Snake 15 2/3"
0.0.1 - 2003 Banded California King Snake 29 2/3"
1.0 Green Anole
0.0.0 House Gecko
0.1 Painted Turtle

Mammals
4 female ferrets,1 male cat and 1 male doberman...and a few kids!

RIP - Nala my Rottie 08/19/2004

If they were Roughs then it's really sad that the pet store could not ID them since they sell Roughs and even have several hatchlings for sale right now! They are adorable.

In reading his email closer, the eggs were not found in Pennsylvania, they were in New York close to the Pennsylvania Border. I read too fast the fist time and thought they were actually in PA.

So that might narrow it down better between the two. I emailed him photos of Smooth Green Eggs, Hatchlings, and Adults. He has not gotten back to me. I told him to buy some small crickets for them, and mentioned that I would be happy to take a baby or two off his hands if he wished. I wasn't sure from the email if he intended to release them back where the eggs came from or keep them as pets.
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Lyns Lair
Frogwatch USA
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose Snake (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow / Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Anery Corn Snake (Suezo)
0.0.3 Eastern Milk Snakes (no names yet)
0.1 Golden Greek Tortoise (Sunshine)
0.2 Mississippi Mud Turtles (Squirt & Shyanne)
1.0 Green Iguana (Norbert)
1.0 Whites Tree Frog (Trevor)
2.0 Solomon Island Eyelash Frogs (Chompy & Gimli)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.5 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Mystique, Freckles, Dotty, Zipper, Twister)

Yeah..if they WERE rough's and he removed them from the wild in PA and was actually caught that is a very stiff fine since they are a threatened species in PA.In fact in PA you aren't suppose to remove ANY eggs from the wild or even a gravid female,but of course people do it all the time which is ashame since breeding is common in captivity now for a lot of snakes.If they were found up on the NY/PA border then they are smooth green snakes as rough's aren't up in Northern PA at all but in the southern part of the state...But like I said they are threatened in PA and are extremely rare to find now..same as the Eastern massasauga. There are a few spots in western pa where there are a few massusauga dens..lucky MOST people have no idea where they are as Western PA has a lot of redneck idiots out west who just kill them because they are a rattle snake

No offense to anyone in Western PA!!
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Reptiles
0.1 - Early 2002 Anery Motley Corn 33 1/2"
1.0 - Late 2003 Yellow Rat Snake 15 2/3"
0.0.1 - 2003 Banded California King Snake 29 2/3"
1.0 Green Anole
0.0.0 House Gecko
0.1 Painted Turtle

Mammals
4 female ferrets,1 male cat and 1 male doberman...and a few kids!

RIP - Nala my Rottie 08/19/2004

and I concur, sounds like smooth green snakes.
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1.0 Corn snake (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes (MO locale)
1.0 Eastern Yellow Belly racer (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Yellow rat snake (Dwight Good stock)
1.1 California king snake (Coastal phase)
1.0 Prairie king snake (KY locale)
0.1 Black king snake (KY locale)
0.0.1 Eastern Milk snake (KY locale)
0.0.1 Eastern/Red milk intergrade (KY locale)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian