Reptile & Amphibian Forums

IF you sold me a snake as a female, and the moment i receive it i realize it is a MALE (spurs were hugh) and i called you and left message that i would have it to my vet to verify sex and ask u to call me. I do so and vet confirms it is indeed a male (i already knew this but had vet checked for you to be absolutely certain). The vet is a nationally known herp vet too! I wait for a call from you which does not come that day. I email the problem and state i do not want a male and ask for a refund to my Master Card (you refused to accept PayPal) and ask for the shipping addy to return your snake at YOUR expense. I feel this is a fair thing to do since the mistake is not mine. What is your opinion? What would you do as an ethical breeder/dealer? Thanks for the help! susan

Mistakes do happen, but maybe it was purposeful. I don't know if you payed $10 or $5000 for the snake, but you could probably still get him for fraud. If he realizes and wants to give you a female or refund money or work with you then that probably isn't fraud. If he doesn't answer you or says go to hell, then you can probably get him. I'm guessing you got it off the internet since it was shipped to you. So at least you got his address, phone, ect. Check out the Complaint Rip Off page on kingsnake. There's a link to it when you go to the clasifieds.
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Tim W
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0.1 Dumeril Boa
0.1 Domestic Housecat

I would hope that everyone would agree...that if someone pays for a certain sexed snake, and it is wrongly sexed and shipped....the dealer, breeder, whatever is totally liable for all costs! They should not only send the correct sexed snake, but should cover shipping and go out of their way to make this right. There are some people out there that unfortunately are not like this, and do a great wrong to all of us. If anyone knows of these individuals, they should make it known to all of us. Those people who do not represent the whole should be made known. Hope this did not happen to you and you were just asking, Have a great day from one of those good future dealers...Andy Federico - ajfreptiles.

Of coarse theres two sides to every story,this being a common issue,"Negitive" but common none the less.Dealing with alledged Reputable Sellers is always tested when issues like this arise.
Playing cat/mouse games in simple communication(s)rapidly depletes and dilutes any and all established Integrity of a Seller IMO.(honey gas up the Truck)
When all options have been exhausted and the Seller refuses to make good on the transaction.They should accept the consequences of public notice/exposure to such .Pursueing Legal action per State Laws/Regulations is also an option but not likely to net any compensatory monies.

Personally(we do things differnt in Texas)
ITS **ROAD TRIP** time and we aint bring`n no BEER !!

T/

>>IF you sold me a snake as a female, and the moment i receive it i realize it is a MALE (spurs were hugh) and i called you and left message that i would have it to my vet to verify sex and ask u to call me. I do so and vet confirms it is indeed a male (i already knew this but had vet checked for you to be absolutely certain). The vet is a nationally known herp vet too! I wait for a call from you which does not come that day. I email the problem and state i do not want a male and ask for a refund to my Master Card (you refused to accept PayPal) and ask for the shipping addy to return your snake at YOUR expense. I feel this is a fair thing to do since the mistake is not mine. What is your opinion? What would you do as an ethical breeder/dealer? Thanks for the help! susan

Call your credit card compnay and have them put a hold on the funds (dispute the transaction) - that will get his attention if hes not getting the money.

Reporting the matter to kingsnake wont do much good. In their TOS they state they cannot tell you whats going on in the matter.. so you wont know what came of the situation and you will still be stuck with a male.

Giving the guy the benefit of the doubt.. he could have shipped you the wrong snake.. and there are females with "larger" spurs.. but come on =)..

I would keep calling him and sending emails and see if he responds.. definatly though call your card company.

Does the site guarentee the sex you asked for? If so there is the solution there, if not and you asked for a certain sex and didn't get it then your loss. I ordered off line and asked for a certain king snake and got a different species all together and they refunded the difference when i sent pictures. Needless to say they screwed up my order other ways as well and I won't order from them again when it comes to livestock, but whats their policy when it comes to sexing??
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My roomates are2 boas, 4 corns,Rotti,3cats and snake food AKA the food chain.

There can be many ways to see this one..
Everyone is correct in one way or another..

I think if this is the case with a het for albino, chances are, sad to say, it may have been intentional.

In a similar way, if dealing with a morph where the female is obviously more valuable, it may be the same case, and his lack of response proves it, to some degree.

In some cases where the animal is very low dollar, such as a $100 boa, i've offered as much as half off to keep the animal, since shipping back and forth again would make the total costs unreasonable, OR, i've offered to send the correct sex for half price and I would pay shipping.
This is of course if the seller and buyer are in agreements with this... if it's not too inconvenient for all.

Then there are times when this is not acceptable, and i've had no problems paying for shipping back, and sending the properly sexed replacement at no charge, shipping on me.

Taking care of business the right way can earn much more business in the future.
Trying nothing other than to save a few bucks almost always eliminates all hopes for future business.

Just my $.02

Hope all works out for you.

PS- There is always a possibility he can NOT contact you for whatever reason. I have payment from someone for nearly 2 weeks now and i've been desperately trying to contact them to ship their animals out! to no avail...

If I were to post this on the BOI, I would first start with an inquisition... 'Anyone know how I can contact so and so? I'd like to corrent a mistake... '
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

How many people outthere deal with boas that cant properly sex them. the sad part about it is that bci and bcc's and all the other sub species out there have to be the easiest snake to sex. but mistakes happen i recently( i dont know how) missexed a boa so give this person the benifit of a doubt and wait to hear from them if they are located in south fl remember they may be bracing for the hurican and have not made it to there computer yet
John Peraza

I know I have missexed a few times myself!
and have received them missexed from big breeders too!

I received an animal that was sexed wrong from one of the biggest breeders out there.. it then changed hands THREE TIMES, and each person took the word of the breeder and didn't think twice! I was the one to find this out.. lol.. thankfully it worked in my favor!

I used to do that - take their word - but then when I resold two of them and realized this was poor business practice, I chaged that immediately.

***You are also right about the hurricane! I know people that packed up and are driving here - already halfway here!
Definately somethings to consider.

Thanks - Joe
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

...I would have you ship the snake back to me at my expense. Then upon confirming the mistake for myself, I would refund 100% of your money. If I discovered the snake was indeed female as originally advertized, I would refund 100% of your money, minus the cost of the 2nd shipping. Bottom line, you purchased a female and anything else shouldn't cost you a penny.

>>IF you sold me a snake as a female, and the moment i receive it i realize it is a MALE (spurs were hugh) and i called you and left message that i would have it to my vet to verify sex and ask u to call me. I do so and vet confirms it is indeed a male (i already knew this but had vet checked for you to be absolutely certain). The vet is a nationally known herp vet too! I wait for a call from you which does not come that day. I email the problem and state i do not want a male and ask for a refund to my Master Card (you refused to accept PayPal) and ask for the shipping addy to return your snake at YOUR expense. I feel this is a fair thing to do since the mistake is not mine. What is your opinion? What would you do as an ethical breeder/dealer? Thanks for the help! susan

If I was the person who sold you that snake, I would either switch it for feamle of your liking or refund the money.

I think Treeboas, bcijoe and bambam69 have posed several acceptable solutions to this matter. I have a few times missexed animals as well, but I have always made it right. We all should make it right as we are the sellers to the consumer. Every case and customer is diffrent. If you want a good reputation you have to. Just my thoughts.
James C.
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IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

....

And it is NOT acceptable to me. I just want to return the snake at his expense and get my MC refunded the $250. Here is what i got in email this morning:

"Susan,
I hope your vet is experienced and did not injure the
snake, I was not the only person who probed the snake
and got female from the probe. There are a few options
we have:
a: you can cover the cost of return shipping and I
will give you a full $250 credit with me
b: you can charge the shipping to me and I will give
you a $200 credit with me
c. you can keep the snake and I will be generous
and send you a money order for $50 ( I think this
is your best deal as you would have a sexually mature
het anery boa for $200, male or female that is a
deal!)

the reason I am only offering these options as I am
sorry but I do not believe it was mis sexed. But if it
was that is my fault, and I'm willing to refund you
some cash for that, or give you credit with me, but I
will not cover shipping both to you and back to me
when I do not feel that it was a mistake, and I only
issue refunds in the form of credit with me unless the
snake was recieved a:unhealthy b: dead "
*****
THE SNAKE I PURCHASED was never advertized as HET for anything....where he got that i dont know. It was a Arg cross with Mex female PERIOD.
Thanks to all who have responded. I returned his email with options of my own....
1. Refund the full $250 to my MC and send me $$ to ship snake back to you
2. Be reported to BOI and i will also call MC and stop payment and keep the snake until it is resolved.

Thanks again all.....hope it works out. susan

Its on the southern east coast,but which one ?
LMAO Credit with him ? rotf.... like anyone would after a display as this.

T/

FIRST OFF i am assuming that the snake is a bci right? there is no need to probe a bci all you have to do is the rub down method if it is a male the you will feel the hemi penis . this guy is a jerk do a charge back and be done with it and please email me this clowns name so i know never to do business with him. missexing a snake is bad enough but being a jerk about it is inexcusible my email address is xxxjohnnyblazexx@aol.com
John Peraza

ANERYTHRISTIC! So he calls anything bred to an argentine HET FOR ANERYTHRISTIC!
I believe this was the guy selling the mexican X argentine striped het for anery or some thing like that, right?

I asked him how he can possibly sell it as a dwarf when bco are one ot he largest snakes out there!
I also asked how is he het for anery and his response was
ARGENTINES ARE ANERY'S SO THIS IS A HET !!!

I'm so sorry you got involved with this guy!!!

Joe Rollo - BciJoe
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

as it is obvious this guy will not work with you. As far as probing goes, yes you can injure a snake if you don't know what you're doing...it has to be done carefully. However, you can also get a false 'female' from animals with stronger tail muscles. While probing may be the most reliable method, especially with certain species of snakes, there is always room for error. I sex all my own boas, and I do so at least 3 separate times before I sell any offspring. Does that guaranty that I won't have made an error? No, but at the same time it reduces the likelihood. If the snake was only ever sexed once, it is a distinct possibility it was sexed incorrectly.

Raven

i personally would dispute the charges with the credit card company until this dealer/breeder can be contacted by either you or the card company and the situation rectified one way or another, otherwise youre going to be paying interest on that charge til it gets settled if you leave it on your account, like someone else mentioned, if he doesnt get payment from that card transaction, i think hell sit up and take notice and most likely go out of HIS/HER way to contact you
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Brad Hamlin
"...when im a good snake, they sometimes throw me a rat..."
B&P Constrictors

I have had the same thing happen to me but from the other side. I sold what at the time I thought was a hypo male to Paul Mitzelfelt at a show. A few days later he calls me and said it's a female. I offered to swap the snake out with a hypo male or refund his money.
That is the only correct thing to do in any case like this. Besides that I'm glad that happen to me, Paul and I have since became great friends and have a lot of future breedings in the works.

James W. Arnold

in this business...if he has an ounce of integrity he will refund all of your money INCLUDING the return shipping.

Take care, Chris Olson

You didn't get what you paid for and until you do whatever it takes to make it right in terms of a refund and shipping costs should not have to come from you. If I were the seller I'd off to replace it with another acceptable (to you) animal of the correct sex and if nothing is available issue a full refund including shipping. I may first see if you could use the wrongly sexed animal and offer a discount but if you couldn't there's no question you'd get your money back upon my safely receiving the returned animal. I'd cover shipping both ways because I'd want to keep you happy and hopefully you'd not hesitate to work with me in the future.

What would I do . . . Baseball bat and a plane ticket. This would cost you some more money but it will make you feel much better. Obviously I am only joking but I was once screwed on some electronics I bought over the internet and can empathize with you that it is a most frustrating experience. Some people have no class.