Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I mean, every time I look at the classifieds I see someone that has an ad labled whitethroat, but when I click on the pic it turns out to be a blackthroat. Now I can easily distinguish them by pattern and color alone, but gee, you think if the throat was puffed out BLACK, you would call it a Black throat right? I mean I see this all the time, wether it be at a pet store, classified, auction, and even at shows. And on top of that, Boca Reptiles has two classifieds, one saying white throat, the other saying blackthroat. Yet they are all one in the same animal. Now if they have to identical animals with blackthroats, and average Blackthroat coloration/pattern, then why would they classify one as a BT and the other as a WT? Sorry for going on and on, but this is really beyond me.. It's common sense!

Hi,
you're not the only one confused on this point; the first fellow to have this mishap occured in 1802, when Francois Daudin formally described, "Lacerta albogularis" (= white throat), then in 1802 described another specimen, but the same species, as "Lacerta albigularis" (= black throat); the Lacerta species name was changed to 'Varanus' in 1885, where it has been ever since.

So you see you're not the only fellow confused by their morphologies; I explained this in the 2000 June-July issues of Reptiles magazine. Yes there is only 1 type of Varanus albigularis, but it has a varied pattern across its vast range from extreme N.W. Egypt on the Mediterranean Sea to the Cape of South Africa = virtually the whole blasted Continent, with fossil records of this species found in the late 1970's.

Now with the nile monitors, that is another story; the nominant V. niloticus was described in 1766, 1768, with the ornate nile V. ornatus described by Daudin in 1803; both look alike and were though closely related, only to realise they are different species by 1998. However, there are other forms of nile monitor 'out there' and will shortly be described, along with another totally unfamiliar species from Africa as well; not to mention another Pacific Island type as well = yes Grandma, there really is a Santa Klaus, and yes there are many more Varanids out there to ponder about...

cheers,
mbayless

Thanks for the info. I'm not confused at all, it's just the people that try to sell them. I just don't get why people just won't call them blackthroats if they have "blackthroats!"lol

They can call them WTs because the taxonomy was changed the Ionides was thrown out, but the Microstictus supposedly describes a different animal, again I ask for a detailed description of Microstictus because Ive seen almost all black Microstictus and something that resembles a banded WT but a bit different. I still refer to the former Ionides as a BT because nobody can describe what the differences between Microstictus, Ionides etc. Maybe Mark can clarify this as to technically which is which. A WT which was formerly known as a BT but not a true BT which has a different name.

Hi Shvar,
I wrote a very tenchnical detailed account of the 'savanna monitors' of Africa, but it was resoundly rejected - not for content but for the format I used to write it - in a chronological, account by account, description by description of all of these forms, and came to conclusion I did in 2000 = V. exanthematicus, V. albigularis, and V. [e.?] ocellatus -? Butthe latter form I was leaning towards a full species status. I might try this again....I had put all of the formal descriptions into one paper, all translated and all written as originally described. Oh well, back to the drawing board...

As for V. microstictus: it was first noted in 1843, 1845, and listed locality/museum no. in 1893, but the earliest description I can find of it is from 1898 J. Anderson's (M.D.) "Zoology of Egypt" series - absolutely beautiful depicted paintings and text.
Next time it was addressed was really when V. yemenensis was formally described in 1989!

cheers,
mbayless

Varanus Albigularis (white-throated-monitor), is a complex of now 2 sub-species, formerly 3, and formerly considered a sub-species itself. V. Albigularis Microstictus is a true Blackthroat, rarely ever available in the pet trade, although the color and pattern of V. Albigularis sold here as a blackthroat used to be called Ionidesi (Ionides- famous snakeman), now considered Albigularis. So, in a sense it would be a WT, but if your buying in the pet trade looking for specific color/pattern version it can be confusing, almost as confusing as trying to figure out what area of Africa each color or pattern comes from.
If you look over the adds, look at the businesses that are calling them one or the other. Being that WTs demand a higher price and someone (many people dont know any better)will pay that much and think that their BT is a cape WT (its funny how many have them and believe that). You mentioned one business in particular that has a very bad reputation in this hobby. We cant talk about that on here, but its not hard to find out which one.

That same dealer, advertised a "perfect" Whitethroat(looked like one of our offspring). While it was a whitethroat, it was totally covered in burn scars. How is that perfect?????

You should understand, there are good, bad, and everything in between, with all walks of life. From car salesmen, to hamburger stands, to reptile dealers.

The question is not only if this person is decieving the public, but if they are blind, dumb or complete fakes. They could be simply naive. But I doubt it.

Theres that olde saying, "let the buyer beware" I think that applys here, as well as in all walks. FR

Thanks for all the great info. Yeah, I saw the ad for the "best whitethroat on the Planet". It had numerousd burns on its back, yet they still had it at a high price.
Thanks!

Heh, I saw an ad not too long ago where the picture depicted an obviously long deceased and dried out animal. They're still posting ads, too.
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