Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hi im 13 and wondering if im to young to have own im not going to power feed or anything just a regular feeding schedile

so wat do u think

I would say not yet at 13. I have a 14 and 15 year old and neither one of them are ready either. They have ball pythons though. They really don't keep up with them to well yet.

Why do I say not yet? Many things to consider.

Can you afford it? Vet bills, food caging, can cost allot from time to time. Sometimes it's minimal but let the bigger cage become neccessary.

Can you take a bite? I'll never say my snake doesn't bite even though he hasn't yet but I'm sure it hurts!

Are you responsible? You have to answer this to yourself (for real)! Are you discaplined enough to ensure temps are right, water is fresh, cage is cleaned and sanitized, periodically check to ensure nothing is coming loose and can be a danger for the snake. Ventilation & humidity are good!

Do your parents approve and are they willing to help? Gotta have their permission and cooperation/support!

Do you have the space in your house. A proper cage will dominate your room. By the time you're 15 you could potentially have a 10 footer needing at a 6 or 8 foot by 3 or 4 foot cage.

Do you have the time? Kids got homework that should come before recreation. By the time homework is done you may not have much time left for everything else you want to do. Usually the snake seems OK out of the way and gets forgotten because they don't bark, scratch and can't get out.

Many other things I'm missing but this is off the top of my head. Stick to smaller snakes, maybe a ball for now until you can say yes to the questions I asked, and the ones I've forgotten. Anyone else please cover what I missed.

DZ

i have to agree.when i was 12, i thought about buying a burm. but i heard about a 15 year old that got killed by his, and that prety much scared me awar from them. so i got a bal python. then, i steped up to a boa.well, im 15 now, and want a burm BAD.. i got me a job now, so i can afford it. im so glad i waited, beacuse if id have got one when i was 12, i wouldnt have been able to propler care for him.

do you really want a snake (if you get a male, wich is smaller) that gets 13 foot, and 100 lbs? and if you get a female, 16 foot, and 300 lbs? think about it, can you even pick up 100 pounds? when i was 13, i was only binching 80.

also, do you have enough room? he is going to need alot of room as he grows.

do you parents know all the facts?

just some facts to conciter.

id personaly get a ball python, and if you want something bigger, get a red tail boa.

Man you need to stop worrying aabout snakes and go back to school. Your spelling ability leaves much to be desired.

He had a question and asked. Making fun of his spelling isn't going to encourage him to seek help here. If you have input, make it constructive.

DZ

I agree, are you such a loser than you can only pick on 13 year olds. Get a life!

yours isnt better, and i agree, quit picking on him!

I'd hold off on the burm for now..at 13 unless your huge at the very least you could end up in a serious problem just because you may not be able to physically control a snake of that size. I have a 8 month old burm that is past the 4ft mark and is only eating a couple rats a week. In a year or two he will be alot bigger and the physical strength will most likely be needed.

Jason

It's true. It's going to depend on you. I started owning pythons when I was 13. It was only a Ball, but I was able to graduate up to larger snakes like a Red Tail Boa when I was 18 and 2 Burms when I was 19. I highly suggest that you have someone that likes your burm living with you or within a couple of minutes from your house. When the Burm gets large enough to...cause mischief without meaning to, you're going to need a second (possibly a third or more) set of hands. It's a very good idea to have someone (or two someones) watch/help you feeding your burm just to make sure everything goes as planned. Owning a burm is like having a child...you've gotta think of everything before it happens. I keep my burms in my room because we also have 2 dogs and 8 pet rats. If s/he were to get out of their cages...I'm sure s/he could level our population of other animals quite quickly. I keep the door to my room shut at all times (when I'm in there and out) and hope desperately that they don't learn to use their spurs as opposable thumbs...and open the doors. At any rate, the cage you keep your burm in should enable you to, if not lock, secure to a degree where younger children could not tamper with it. I don't know if you have younger siblings...but you must think of them in this situation.

In conclusion, there are quite a few things things to think of (the things that were foremost in my mind, I listed above). I do not think of keeping a burm a matter of age. I surely, at 13, did not feel secure in myself (and for our pets) to have a snake that would soon need a 1/4 of my room just for cage space. At any age, you must realize that taking on any large snake is a TON of responsibility. I, personally, would recommend having your guardian read over the responses here and see if s/he thinks you can do it. I know it's hard to let mom/dad make the decisions...but it will help secure a good future for not only you and your parents...but a burmese python. I always recommend going for a smaller snake (like I did, graduating up) but some people feel owning a neonate burm will teach them what they need to know as it grows. At any rate, purchase a burmese python manual (I recommend Phillipe De Vosjoli, as it is worded excellectly) and read it over. It helps to go to pet stores (pet shows, etc) with large snakes...so you know what you're getting into. On a more positive note, if you do get a burmese python remember to handle it with respect and care...as you will reap what you sew (especially good advice if you plan on later getting a reticulated python, anaconda, etc). Remember that this forum is open to any, and all, questions you might have. Everyone has questions at some point in their herping experience and you are always more than welcome to post so that we may help you. Good luck in your adventures.

Sam

Just kidding. That's the same response we get when discussing our animal population. We keep a few as pets also. I built a 16 CF over/under cage for them with enough under storage for 2 10 gallon aquariums. Ever come across an odd eye or some other rarity? We had a black hooded. All dark, dark brwon (nearly black) with a solid black head. It was pretty cool. An old neighbor of ours has a longhair something or other which is as big as a possum. It's gross! Maybe because she doesn't keep him clean' dunno!

DZ

I keep a few pet rats as breeders too. I think most do or at least have. I have some of those hairless rats. Those are cool. I wish I could get a rat that is as big as a possum. I have a possumlol. He is realy cool, just like a cat except he is a possum. About the size of a rabbit I guess. I get the same response with anything I have excpt my dogs. "Why do you have it"? "why do you want it? ". Stuff like that.
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Justin

lol, thats what i told her...

Yes, pet rats. I have 7 hairless and 1. I started out with hairless last year about this time with a male and eventually went back for the female. As for the question by Captain, yes...I have two odd eyed females. The female I spoke of above was marred by her mother (after killing all but 2 of the litter). Her eye is literally the size of a pencil eraser as compared to a normal eye. We call her Cy (short for Cyclops). We named the boy Rex. Later, I adopted a hairless and a haired *B/W HOODED* (Symone and Pyp, respectively) and later purchased Vyolet who delivered 11 babies the next day. We kept all of the boys and gave Rex and all the females to my finance's step mother.

My pet rats are as spoiled as they come. The boys come when they are called and all of my rats know their names. Rex and the girls (Vyolet's babies) have been taught to wave for a treat. As far as being the most spoiled, my three baby boys (9 months old, now) love being turned over and me blowing on their bellies. They also refuse to sleep anywhere but in a homemade hammock that I made from a towel and two sections of empty paper towel rolls. Moreover, I'm dressing them up for halloween as (note, they are males) a Ballerina, a Clown and a Magician...and I am dressing up as the Pied Piper...their costumes are going to be simple and made mostly of paper...but you get the idea of how truly spoiled they are. Ah, love.

Before anyone asks...yes, it is quite difficult to feed snakes rats. I have avoided the situation all together by staying away from hairless rats...however! At one point, I walked into the petstore and asked for a medium rat and he told me, "we don't have any! OH! Wait!! Here's one!!! But it's hairless! *plucks rat from bag and dangles it in the air*" To which I passed out stone cold. BUT!! It's too hard to live without snakes in my house, so...

Sam

My wife is into the rats, I'm into feeding them to my snake. Sounds like she may be asking you some questions down the line. We had a hairless but it got it's rump kicked by the others. I guess the fur plays a big part in protecting the skin from scratches, drying out etc. cuz this little dude was a mess. I don't remember what happened to him though, we didn't have any snakes at that time.

Is it OK if my wife contacts you via e-mail for rat info?

DZ

I'd be honored if your wife wanted to email me. ILOVEBOIDS@aol.com I usually answer within 2 hours of being mailed depending on the day. Unfortunately, today, we lost one of our beloved to cancer...and the family spent the whole day grieving *sigh*. Anyway! there is also a rat message board here (www.exotichobbyist.com) where I post along with a couple of ratteries, she's more than welcome to look those over (a picture of my hairless boys are there that she'd probably think was cute). Anyway! Getting late!

Sam

I had wanted a burm since I was 12, but told myself I would never buy one. I wanted to go with adoption because I know you can find a burm in need of a good home almost anywhere, and I'm a sucker for animals in need. =P
When I was 15, someone had a baby burm they didn't want (and I mean BABY. Curled up, she could basically fit in one hand.) She had a pretty bad kink in her spine. I took her in. Although my parents hate her, they know that I'm responsible enough to care for her, and I have a job so they don't pay for anything. My dad even jokes about feeding the cats and the dog to her when she's full grown.

Everything the first person said is true EXCEPT one thing. If you get a burmese python, it will need an ENTIRE room in the house all to itslef. Keep in mind they get up to 20 feet long. No cage will be big enough for an adult to live comfortably, so it will need an entire room. I would suggest waiting, and when you do get one, adopt it. There are many selters for reptiles all over the country. Go to www.petfinder.com to see what I mean.

In my opinion, 13 is far to young for something with the growth potential and life span of a Burm. I also don't believe that most of the Burm owners of any age should own them. I've seen far to many that were not taken care of properly. The cage space is huge usually requiring an entire room and unless you have 3-4 people willing to help with the maintenance and handling then it's really dangerous. All it takes is one mistake for a snake of that size to kill any full grown person. Personally I don't think anyone should own any of the giant snakes because of that danger. It's almost as dangerous as owning any of the venemous species. I don't make the laws though but I hate to hear horror stories of what happens to people owning these giants. It tends to reflect poorly on snake ownership as a whole. I have Ball Pythons, Spotted Pythons and Rainbow Boas and when people simply hear the word Python, they assume I'm talking about some giant snake with the potential to kill a person and I find that reflects poorly on me. In general most people aren't educated on snakes but I believe we need tighter restrictions on giant snake species ownership and better public education on what's dangerous.

.. stay out of the big snake forum. I understand you're trying to help and I hope this doesn't sound like an attack because it is not meant to be that. This forum is set up for Burm owners to assist each other in the care and handling of Burmese Pythons. Anyone coming in here saying they should not be kept as pets sounds like a protestor with to little info who is only concentrating on what the media says about these "killers". That's not why were are here.

Respectfully,

DZ

I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but your....
"Personally I don't think anyone should own any of the giant snakes because of that danger. It's almost as dangerous as owning any of the venemous species. I don't make the laws though but I hate to hear horror stories of what happens to people owning these giants.".....is a very, very dangerous line of reasoning.

I'm against outlawing the ownership of venomous or the big 5. Just because some guy is an idiot should not mean I lose MY rights. By your reasoning no one should own a dog. More people by far get hurt by dogs than snakes. More dogs are mistreated also.

A lot of things in this life are dangerous. Driving a car, going to the swimming pool, alcohol. Its just a part of life. No matter how many rules you put in effect, somebody is going to manage to get themselves killed. Period. Do you want everyone underhouse arrest?

Do we need better education? Yes. More restrictions on what we are ALLOWED to have? Heck NO. Once you make something illegal, the education stops. They can't take it to the vet, they can't go around asking questions. Do you really think that a law is going to make people stop owning them? The only ones it would stop would be the ones that would have been responsible in the first place.

I apologize for probably over reacting, but I'm SOOO tired of people who think that because someone else was stupid that I might be also. There isn't a single line of reasoning that you could use to justify restrictions, that I couldn't turn around and use to restrict half your life.
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Travis Rose
(859) 582-7310
0.2 Normal Columbian
1.1 100% DH for Snow Columbians
0.2 66% DH for Snow Columbians
2.7 Kenyans (1.3 Anerys, 0.1 het for anery, 0.3 Possible hets, 1.0 normal)
0.3 Ball Pythons
1.0 Borneo Blood
0.0.2 Blue Tounged Skinks
0.3 Dogs (1 Full Pitbull, 1 Pit/Husky, & 1 Bernese Mt. Dog cross)
0.3 Cats (1 fat, 1 old, and 1 insane)
1.0 Ferret
0.1 Very understanding wife

I never said ban them, just make sure only the right people own them. Not everyone should be able to and that's why we have so many of these giants in need of rescue every year because anyone can own them without knowing the proper care. In the end, the animals pay for it. I don't like to see animals mistreated and people tend to mistreat things they weren't ready for. As for the comment about dogs, I also don't think most people should own PitBulls either (I saw you had one). Like the big snakes, people tend to own them as a status symbol. "Hey look how dangerous the animal I own is, that makes me tough" seems to be what I see a lot. Because of these sorts of attitudes and mistreatment of all of these animals, it will eventually make it impossible for people to own any animal as a pet because these dangerous animals reflect poorly on the rest of pet ownership as a whole. If you don't think that's true then just look at all the laws states are trying to pass that lump all Boidae and all large dogs into one category. They want to try and outlaw Ball Pythons and Spotted pythons not because they are dangerous but because other giant pythons "can" be. It's the same with dogs, just because Pits "can" be dangerous (not all are) they want to try and outlaw all large dog breeds including my Great Dane just because of the size. Anyone who knows dogs can tell you that Danes are just big babies and not dangerous at all but they get lumped in with Pits just because of the size. A girl I used to know had a son who insisted (at 9 years old) that he had to have an Anaconda and she bought it for him not knowing how dangerous they can be and when her son had to be taken to the hospital twice for stitches (once on his face) she is now against all snakes thinking they are all that dangerous. Lack of education on these giants is the main problem but as we all know, most people don't want to educate themselves so in the end it will reflect poorly on the rest of us. I don't believe we should ban them but I do believe potential giant snake owners should go through a 6 week class on care and handling of them before they are allowed to own one. We as snake owners need to take responsibility for the safety and well being of potential owners and the animals.

well i have to agree with lord dryfus here . The fact that they can be dangerous is not a false but the KEEPER themselves is the danger i have owned many large burms from 10-18 ft and a few 14-16 retics in the past now only boas.Reason is i didnt want to contribute to a already wild trend of owning the " cool python" fad .EDUCATION is the key not legislation!!!!

More people are killed mamed as dryfus stated by dogs then all snake yes EVEN venomous kept as pets do less damage then out friendly Spot the mutt or that giant poodle ( who was bred as a FIGHTER not a pampered trimmed hedge bush) As to the mother who bought her 9 yr old a conda well the darwin award goes to her for that notthe snake for doing what a snake does .i am commonly asked or told "Thats a copperhead" when someone sees my salmontine boa . i explain to them NO its a boa and not a venomous ... then the " does it bite ?" comes ... i look at them and smile and say well god gave it teeth and anything with teeth will bite so yes they CAN bite its knowing how to react around them and what not to do to avoid that bite..

As to the pitbull logic while yes Pitsare notorious for being mean its NOT the breed as much as the inbreed owner who chooses that path. I have several friends w pits that would rather lick the skin off your face then bite you. the sad fact is that across the US there may be a dozen snake incidents a yr but there are more then a dozen dog bites in your hometown a year or in a month more realistically.

So to the question of a 13yr old owning a burm i would have to say not yet and i say this w/out knowing the experience level or maturity level of the kid . Kids like to play pranks and i could easily see the " toss a snake in someones face to scarethem etc ending in a bite that would shed bad light on the hobby/buisness all over playinga joke on someone one snake bite goes a long way in the world 1000 dogbites are blamed on the dog maybe 200 are the dogs fault in the sense the dog was rasied to be like that and even then the liability lays in the owners hands the dog didnt bite cause he felt like it he did cause he was taught to do so .
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Buisnesses come and go everyday, what keeps you here is how you treated the customer the day before....My Boa Can Kick Your Boas _ss!www.cheapcages.com
Visit the new website while the Jungle gets made over.

Regulation doesn't end where you want it to. You might have good intentions, but once you open that can or worms the "BAN ALL SNAKES" groups will take it over and run with it. Lets face it, there are far more of them than there are of us. Education is definately the key, but if you're not careful your kids will be reading about them instead of owning them. I wish there was a way to make sure only the right people owned them. Unfortunately, I can't name a single instance where legistlation has actually worked.

About the pit issue

I volunteer at the local animal shelter, and I'm currently undergoing training to be a temperment tester. Did you know that there was a temperment study done a few years ago and the only dog who scored higher than pits was the lab?

I could go on and on using statistics, scientific studies, and breed history to show what a wonderful dog a pit is. However, I just did that and lost the post....dang it, and I don't feel like retyping all that.
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Travis Rose
(859) 582-7310
0.2 Normal Columbian
1.1 100% DH for Snow Columbians
0.2 66% DH for Snow Columbians
2.7 Kenyans (1.3 Anerys, 0.1 het for anery, 0.3 Possible hets, 1.0 normal)
0.3 Ball Pythons
1.0 Borneo Blood
0.0.2 Blue Tounged Skinks
0.3 Dogs (1 Full Pitbull, 1 Pit/Husky, & 1 Bernese Mt. Dog cross)
0.3 Cats (1 fat, 1 old, and 1 insane)
1.0 Ferret
0.1 Very understanding wife

One last time for all you idiots who apparently can't read. I didn't say ban and of course dogs hurt more people every year because dog owners outnumber snake owners 10,000 to 1. So that isn't and has never been a valid argument. If we go strictly by your mentality of anything goes and anyone can do what they want and own what they want then I feel for you. The world would be a very rough place and most of you wouldn't last a week. I never support bans but do support some restrictions. Such as 18 to own venemous and the same should apply for giants as well. I also believe that people should have to attend a course on care and handling for venemous and giants and it only makes sense. Far to many people refuse to willingly educate themselves and to save the animals from abuse (and the people from the animal), the people should be forced to educate themselves prior to ownership. That would change a lot of minds and fewer animals would be harmed. As for Pits being less dangerous than Labs...??? Put down the crack pipe. We all know that any dog that's mistreated can be dangerous and we all know that there are LOTS of Labs abandoned and mistreated. I've been to the animal shelters and I've seen for myself the number of labs there. Labs, by nature, are less aggressive than a Pit and the only people that say otherwise are Pit owners who are biased. And there must be a reason that here in KC, any Pit that comes in is not rehabilitated but put down. It's because they are super aggressive by nature. Also, the standard poodle is a water dog. It was bred for hunting not for fighting. I'm not sure where you got your info but it's all screwed up.

Good point, except no one under 18 owning is pretty much already taken care of, it's called parents. So your restrictions are pointless, as most people under 18 don't live on their own and the decision to buy pets is not usually their's to make to begin with. While living at home I wouldn't have dared bring home something without getting clearance first from the folks.
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Gary Harris - gary@mydixiesys.com
http://www.dixiesys.com/
http://www.8-95.com/

I feel like an idiot for not catching that...lol. I guess I should have pointed out that alcohol is illegal before 21, yet can you name an 18 year old who can't get some?.... oh well.

>>Good point, except no one under 18 owning is pretty much already taken care of, it's called parents. So your restrictions are pointless, as most people under 18 don't live on their own and the decision to buy pets is not usually their's to make to begin with. While living at home I wouldn't have dared bring home something without getting clearance first from the folks.
>>-----
>>Gary Harris - gary@mydixiesys.com
>>http://www.dixiesys.com/
>>http://www.8-95.com/
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Travis Rose
(859) 582-7310
0.2 Normal Columbian
1.1 100% DH for Snow Columbians
0.2 66% DH for Snow Columbians
2.7 Kenyans (1.3 Anerys, 0.1 het for anery, 0.3 Possible hets, 1.0 normal)
0.3 Ball Pythons
0.0.2 Blue Tounged Skinks
0.3 Dogs (1 Full Pitbull, 1 Pit/Husky, & 1 Bernese Mt. Dog cross)
0.3 Cats (1 fat, 1 old, and 1 insane)
1.0 Ferret
0.1 Very understanding wife

Parents don't always make the best decisions either. Kids are carrying guns now and I don't see the parents being blamed for that, though they should be. Also, giant snakes are small when young and I was sneaking girls into my bedroom when I was 16 so getting a snake into the house wouldn't be a problem for a teenager. So that just shoots your arguement down...next...

You can't legislate against bad parenting, if you're able to bring a snake and cage and heating into the home without your parents' knowledge, then if you're able to bring rats/chickens/rabbits/etc into the house every week or so to feed it without your parents' knowledge, and you're able to BUY these things without your parents' knowledge then it's your parents that need help, not laws against big (or any size) snakes.

I'd have never gotten away with it for any amount of time, my parents knew what went on around the house and hiding a snake cage would have been near to impossible for more than a day or so.

You can't make laws trying to make up for lack of parenting.
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Gary Harris - gary@mydixiesys.com
http://www.dixiesys.com/
http://www.8-95.com/

Parents don't really pay that much attention. The proof is the Colombine School massacre. The parents had no idea that for months, the kids had gotten hold of firearms and had been building explosives in the garage. That is most likely the minority of parents that are clueless but like I said, at 16 I was sneaking girls into the house overnight so getting things past parents is easy. Plus I was working so paying for things wasn't a problem. You have to legislate a little to hold the parents responsible for the kids mistakes otherwise the parents won't pay attention and to keep retailers from making poor sales decisions, like selling a 15 ft burm to a 15 year old.

If the parents can't catch them, how the heck would police? They have to have a legal reason to enter a house. Unless you intend to give them that power too? You don't trust parents, but you trust big brother? That just shot your argument down...next

>>Parents don't always make the best decisions either. Kids are carrying guns now and I don't see the parents being blamed for that, though they should be. Also, giant snakes are small when young and I was sneaking girls into my bedroom when I was 16 so getting a snake into the house wouldn't be a problem for a teenager. So that just shoots your arguement down...next...
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Travis Rose
(859) 582-7310
0.2 Normal Columbian
1.1 100% DH for Snow Columbians
0.2 66% DH for Snow Columbians
2.7 Kenyans (1.3 Anerys, 0.1 het for anery, 0.3 Possible hets, 1.0 normal)
0.3 Ball Pythons
0.0.2 Blue Tounged Skinks
0.3 Dogs (1 Full Pitbull, 1 Pit/Husky, & 1 Bernese Mt. Dog cross)
0.3 Cats (1 fat, 1 old, and 1 insane)
1.0 Ferret
0.1 Very understanding wife

Ok, one last time....what would happen if you had to be 18 to own the animal? Oh yeah, the shop couldn't sell you one so the parents wouldn't need to be involved, no big brother in your house and no giant snake sold to a kid who can't care for one. Try again. So....NO...you've shot nothing down. You just weren't thinking about it in the right context.

You have to be 18 to buy alcohol, has that stopped anyone? The reputable breeders wouldn't sell to someone under 18 unless they believed they could handle it. The breeders who don't care if the kid gets killed certainly won't care about a law. Especially if they can just tell the kid to bring a friend in who is 18.

I don't know about where you come from, but even here in KY it is easier to buy a snake from a local breeder, or internet, than a pet shop. I have 13-15 year olds get my name through the grape vine and call me. Most of them already know internet sources. Pet shops are quickly becoming a thing of the past. Walmart, Petsmart ect, are putting them out of business. They don't carry snakes. In a few years you won't need to worry about them at all. Bottom line is, if they want it they can get it. THE ONLY 24 HOUR 7 DAY A WEEK CHECK ON THEM IS PARENTS. Yes, you snuck a girl into your room overnight...you dont really think a burm can grow from 18 inches to 15 ft overnight do you?

>>Ok, one last time....what would happen if you had to be 18 to own the animal? Oh yeah, the shop couldn't sell you one so the parents wouldn't need to be involved, no big brother in your house and no giant snake sold to a kid who can't care for one. Try again. So....NO...you've shot nothing down. You just weren't thinking about it in the right context.
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Travis Rose
(859) 582-7310
0.2 Normal Columbian
1.1 100% DH for Snow Columbians
0.2 66% DH for Snow Columbians
2.7 Kenyans (1.3 Anerys, 0.1 het for anery, 0.3 Possible hets, 1.0 normal)
0.3 Ball Pythons
0.0.2 Blue Tounged Skinks
0.3 Dogs (1 Full Pitbull, 1 Pit/Husky, & 1 Bernese Mt. Dog cross)
0.3 Cats (1 fat, 1 old, and 1 insane)
1.0 Ferret
0.1 Very understanding wife

You have to be 21 to buy alcohol. You can buy it at 18 if you are on an army base.
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Travis Rose
(859) 582-7310
0.2 Normal Columbian
1.1 100% DH for Snow Columbians
0.2 66% DH for Snow Columbians
2.7 Kenyans (1.3 Anerys, 0.1 het for anery, 0.3 Possible hets, 1.0 normal)
0.3 Ball Pythons
0.0.2 Blue Tounged Skinks
0.3 Dogs (1 Full Pitbull, 1 Pit/Husky, & 1 Bernese Mt. Dog cross)
0.3 Cats (1 fat, 1 old, and 1 insane)
1.0 Ferret
0.1 Very understanding wife

Yes, some breeders still would sell the giants to kids under 18 and if something happened, they could be help liable. It's called "Wrongful Death". Three or four breeders go to jail or are slapped with 1/2 million dollar lawsuits and the illegal sale of giant snakes to minors would stop. As for internet companies and breeders, they would still ask for ID just like Glades Herps does on the sale of venemous. Just because you sell over the internet wouldn't mean you could just skirt the law. Parents should always be the first line of defence against this stuff but as I've proven over and over, there are to many parents that just don't know what their kids are doing. Also, teenage kids aren't stupid and always find ways around their parents if they really want something. Hence, the drug problem in teenagers today.

If parents can't catch them how could police? Police have to have a legal reason to enter a house. Also, why do you trust big brother when you don't trust parents? I'm sure if you had kept the girl in your room for about 3 years your parents would have eventually noticed. That just shot your argument down...next

>>Parents don't always make the best decisions either. Kids are carrying guns now and I don't see the parents being blamed for that, though they should be. Also, giant snakes are small when young and I was sneaking girls into my bedroom when I was 16 so getting a snake into the house wouldn't be a problem for a teenager. So that just shoots your arguement down...next...
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Travis Rose
(859) 582-7310
0.2 Normal Columbian
1.1 100% DH for Snow Columbians
0.2 66% DH for Snow Columbians
2.7 Kenyans (1.3 Anerys, 0.1 het for anery, 0.3 Possible hets, 1.0 normal)
0.3 Ball Pythons
0.0.2 Blue Tounged Skinks
0.3 Dogs (1 Full Pitbull, 1 Pit/Husky, & 1 Bernese Mt. Dog cross)
0.3 Cats (1 fat, 1 old, and 1 insane)
1.0 Ferret
0.1 Very understanding wife

Not if I could have kept her in the closet and she was as quiet as most snakes are. I don't trust parents or the government to really do the right thing but only one can regulate evenly across the board. That way all young kids can't keep giants and there aren't incidents where parents are ignorant to what the snake will grow to become and the child is in danger. There's a reason things are regulated and that's to protect people from a danger they don't know about. I also support gun ownership but I don't support it for young kids and believe that has to be regulated as well. Things that can kill kids needs to stay out of the hands of kids and parents apparently don't take enough time to make sure their kids don't have this stuff so the government has to step in at some point.

First of all, I salute you. If you are able to talk a girl into living in a closet you definately have game. Secondly, you must have been one of those rare kids who clean their own room with absolutely no help from mom. Your mom must have felt like she won the lottery. Thirdly, you must have been able to order your parents not to enter your room any time they wished. That is just amazing. Mine still reserves the right to bust my butt...am I'm a 30 year old married man. I have enough respect for her that I'd let her too. You are definately the man.

>>Not if I could have kept her in the closet and she was as quiet as most snakes are. I don't trust parents or the government to really do the right thing but only one can regulate evenly across the board. That way all young kids can't keep giants and there aren't incidents where parents are ignorant to what the snake will grow to become and the child is in danger. There's a reason things are regulated and that's to protect people from a danger they don't know about. I also support gun ownership but I don't support it for young kids and believe that has to be regulated as well. Things that can kill kids needs to stay out of the hands of kids and parents apparently don't take enough time to make sure their kids don't have this stuff so the government has to step in at some point.
-----
Travis Rose
(859) 582-7310
0.2 Normal Columbian
1.1 100% DH for Snow Columbians
0.2 66% DH for Snow Columbians
2.7 Kenyans (1.3 Anerys, 0.1 het for anery, 0.3 Possible hets, 1.0 normal)
0.3 Ball Pythons
0.0.2 Blue Tounged Skinks
0.3 Dogs (1 Full Pitbull, 1 Pit/Husky, & 1 Bernese Mt. Dog cross)
0.3 Cats (1 fat, 1 old, and 1 insane)
1.0 Ferret
0.1 Very understanding wife

I never had to order my parents out of my room, they tried to give me space in my teenage years and yes, my room was always clean. How else do you keep parents from finding out what's going on? You look like a model teenager. As for your mom still "busting" you at 30....??? Scary. You may want to talk to a psychiatrist about some issues and see if you can't cut the umbilical cord. Also, yes in my teenage years....I was the man.

If you ever have children, you will find out that regardless of age you will always be their parent. If I'm 80 I'll still correct mine if they are 60. My parents and grandparents had the same policy.

I could crumple my mom (who is all I have left by the way) like a piece of paper. However, I know if she ever took a broom to my head then I definately deserved it. Its called Parental Guidance...lol. If you remember, the bible does say "honor thy mother and father".

>>I never had to order my parents out of my room, they tried to give me space in my teenage years and yes, my room was always clean. How else do you keep parents from finding out what's going on? You look like a model teenager. As for your mom still "busting" you at 30....??? Scary. You may want to talk to a psychiatrist about some issues and see if you can't cut the umbilical cord. Also, yes in my teenage years....I was the man.
-----
Travis Rose
(859) 582-7310
0.2 Normal Columbian
1.1 100% DH for Snow Columbians
0.2 66% DH for Snow Columbians
2.7 Kenyans (1.3 Anerys, 0.1 het for anery, 0.3 Possible hets, 1.0 normal)
0.3 Ball Pythons
0.0.2 Blue Tounged Skinks
0.3 Dogs (1 Full Pitbull, 1 Pit/Husky, & 1 Bernese Mt. Dog cross)
0.3 Cats (1 fat, 1 old, and 1 insane)
1.0 Ferret
0.1 Very understanding wife

Parents should never run their childrens lives once they're on their own. That just makes me think of "Psycho". "Yes mother". Also, the bible has nothing to do with me seeing as I'm atheist. You can also find things in there condemning snakes as evil so let's not go there.

I never said they should run their lives. I said that it will always be your duty to correct them. They may or may not listen, but that doesn't change your obligation. We were obviously raised very differently. I've never, ever, felt the need to hide anything from my parents. I was taught that if you are going to do it, do it infront of God and everybody. Sneaking a girl to my room wouldn't have gotten me in nearly as much trouble as lying about it if I got caught. Isn't that funny?

What is wrong with valuing your parents opinions anyway? At 17 I was a genius, I had all answers. At 30 I realize just how much I don't know. College was a breeze, and I work as a chemist so I really hope I'm not that stupid. I have far more education than my parents, but far less life experience. It would be idiotic not to pay attention. I hope my kids feel the same one day.

You are wrong about the bible. To paraphrase it, it said that snakes are cursed...not evil. Big difference. Before the curse it said that God created all things and saw that they were good.

We are definately off topic big time. I'm surprised these post haven't gotten deleted already. Feel free to email me at LordDreyfus@hotmail.com if you wish to continue this discussion. Look forward to hearing from you. Travis
-----
Travis Rose
(859) 582-7310
0.2 Normal Columbian
1.1 100% DH for Snow Columbians
0.2 66% DH for Snow Columbians
2.7 Kenyans (1.3 Anerys, 0.1 het for anery, 0.3 Possible hets, 1.0 normal)
0.3 Ball Pythons
0.0.2 Blue Tounged Skinks
0.3 Dogs (1 Full Pitbull, 1 Pit/Husky, & 1 Bernese Mt. Dog cross)
0.3 Cats (1 fat, 1 old, and 1 insane)
1.0 Ferret
0.1 Very understanding wife

I never said that a pit was less dangerous, or less aggressive than a lab. I said that the ONLY dog that scored higher on a recent temperment test was the lab. Also, before you say too much about pits you really should do some research. I did not become biased because I have a pit. I came to love them AFTER I did the research and decided to get one. She's my baby.

Plus, there are different types of aggression. Pits were bred to be non aggressive to humans, but super aggressive toward other dogs. I've come across at least one report from an agency that trained guard and attack dogs that did not recommend pits because a WELL BRED pit bull is almost impossible to train to bite a man. Unfortunately, the real crack pipe smokers are inbreeding them ect, ect, and this trait is dissapearing.

Stop and think a moment. Take everything you have heard about pits and compare it to snakes. See any resemblance? As a snake owner, you should be very used to people thinking your animals are dangerous because of what they have heard via the media or other uneducated/biased sources. How can you be aware that the general public opinion may be wrong, and yet use that to justify your stance on pits? Seriously think about it. If a dog bites someone and its 95% poodle and 5% pit, its always recored as a pit bull. Does this sound fair to you?

As for being 18-21 to own venomous...I thought that was already the law? I think that florida makes you have 1000 hours work experience with the venomous species you want to get a permit for. Regardless, I agree with you 100% there. Should people be 18 to own one of the big 5? I'm undecided. Some can handle it, others cannot. The mandatory course does sound like a good idea.

In your original post you never said you thought people under 18 shouldn't be able to own them. You said you didn't think anyone should have them. THATS why everyone thought you meant ban.

If you would like, I can provide tons of reference material to back up anything I've said about pits. Believe it or not, I actually do know what I'm talking about. My email is LordDreyfus@hotmail.com.

>>One last time for all you idiots who apparently can't read. I didn't say ban and of course dogs hurt more people every year because dog owners outnumber snake owners 10,000 to 1. So that isn't and has never been a valid argument. If we go strictly by your mentality of anything goes and anyone can do what they want and own what they want then I feel for you. The world would be a very rough place and most of you wouldn't last a week. I never support bans but do support some restrictions. Such as 18 to own venemous and the same should apply for giants as well. I also believe that people should have to attend a course on care and handling for venemous and giants and it only makes sense. Far to many people refuse to willingly educate themselves and to save the animals from abuse (and the people from the animal), the people should be forced to educate themselves prior to ownership. That would change a lot of minds and fewer animals would be harmed. As for Pits being less dangerous than Labs...??? Put down the crack pipe. We all know that any dog that's mistreated can be dangerous and we all know that there are LOTS of Labs abandoned and mistreated. I've been to the animal shelters and I've seen for myself the number of labs there. Labs, by nature, are less aggressive than a Pit and the only people that say otherwise are Pit owners who are biased. And there must be a reason that here in KC, any Pit that comes in is not rehabilitated but put down. It's because they are super aggressive by nature. Also, the standard poodle is a water dog. It was bred for hunting not for fighting. I'm not sure where you got your info but it's all screwed up.
-----
Travis Rose
(859) 582-7310
0.2 Normal Columbian
1.1 100% DH for Snow Columbians
0.2 66% DH for Snow Columbians
2.7 Kenyans (1.3 Anerys, 0.1 het for anery, 0.3 Possible hets, 1.0 normal)
0.3 Ball Pythons
0.0.2 Blue Tounged Skinks
0.3 Dogs (1 Full Pitbull, 1 Pit/Husky, & 1 Bernese Mt. Dog cross)
0.3 Cats (1 fat, 1 old, and 1 insane)
1.0 Ferret
0.1 Very understanding wife

I would never ask to ban them. As far as thinking nobody should own them...that's true but based on my own opinion. I would never ask that to be legislated and would be there to fight a ban. I think the giants are beautiful and I don't think most people are truly ready for what ownership entails just like I don't think people should own tigers or lions as pets either. Though there are a few people who could care for them properly.

from the babble you speak we should also restrict who should have children. Are they not difficult to raise? Can they not be incredibly dangerous, as they get larger, both to themselves and others? From the sound of it your friend who obtained a conda for a nine year old is a good candidate. Your "whining" about the danger of big snakes is no different than your dane simply because of it's size. This does seem to be the issue here since the size is what makes burms dangerous. I agree they are but for your sake I see the need to explain this is for comparison purposes. They're a snake the same as your ball python but a tad larger. Just like a Dane is a dog, just a tad larger. By saying you don't like to hear people complain about your Great Dane, then making foolish comments as you did about burms, you are merely telling us you are a hypocrate! Your hypocracy negates your opinion and jeopardizes your input. I didn't feel the need to check your info but I'd say your still a pup yourself. With that I will again suggest whining about burms elsewhere. I'm done with ya!

DZ

Horses will kill you a helluva lot faster, and a helluva lot more often, than any snake, venomous or otherwise. Don't see horses being banned.

As for proper care, yes I agree, too many big snakes aren't cared for properly. Add to this list little snakes, lizards, birds, dogs, cats, horses, and just about any other pet. Because SOME don't care for a species properly doesn't reflect poorly on the species, at least not the pet species, but it maybe does reflect a bit poorly on our OWN species.
-----
Gary Harris - gary@mydixiesys.com
http://www.dixiesys.com/
http://www.8-95.com/

I might not agree with your opinion...but I'll defend until the end, your right to stick it!

Sam

I think you should hold off on a burm for now. Having a pet should be a lifetime commitment and life is going to change a lot in the next 5 years. Are you going to college? No dorm will let you have a 15 ft python. Very few apartments are going to let you have a snake that size either. Chances are you will have to find it a new home...and how many people would YOU trust with it? I would go with something smaller and more "portable".

>>hi im 13 and wondering if im to young to have own im not going to power feed or anything just a regular feeding schedile
>>
>>so wat do u think
-----
Travis Rose
(859) 582-7310
0.2 Normal Columbian
1.1 100% DH for Snow Columbians
0.2 66% DH for Snow Columbians
2.7 Kenyans (1.3 Anerys, 0.1 het for anery, 0.3 Possible hets, 1.0 normal)
0.3 Ball Pythons
1.0 Borneo Blood
0.0.2 Blue Tounged Skinks
0.3 Dogs (1 Full Pitbull, 1 Pit/Husky, & 1 Bernese Mt. Dog cross)
0.3 Cats (1 fat, 1 old, and 1 insane)
1.0 Ferret
0.1 Very understanding wife

Don't do it. Burm's are awesome snakes but should be left to advanced snake keepers. Although it is rare, people have been severly injured by their large pythons. Another major factor is what are you going to do with it when (or if) you go away to college? Large Burmese Pythons are exceptionally hard to get rid of - there are too many unwanted large snakes already. My advice to you is wait to you have a house of your own.

Conflict breeds discussion. People who all think alike really have nothing to say. That's why most of the time these boards are just a bunch of people saying the same thing over and over. True discussions only take place from differing views and that's why I'm here. Just look at what happened when I posted a "BP morph pic". It generated over 60 replies and opened up a real topic of discussion. Not just "I think the same way the others do". Also I only had one idiot reply and I squashed him quick but everyone else discussed it.

Your views are flawed somewhat (atleast in my opinion). You as a snake owner condoning the governmental control of the ownership of some snakes only allows then more control and eventually total control of all pets. Not a pleasant future in my opinion.
And secondly yes people should have different opinions about somethings however other things there is only one right answer. Proper husbandry, feeding techniques, etc. When one experiments with these things terrible things happen, usually the death of the snake. That is why we say the same things over and over again. Just like you are entitled to write whatever you want you do not have to read what we write if it bothers you with the normalacy and repetativeness of our posts. We repeat the same information because it is the right information. Todd

The governmenet already controls the ownership of animals and so do insurance companies. Try getting home owners insurance sometime. 90% of the insurance companies in the country will not cover your house if you own reptiles at all. Even a tiny green anole. No home owners insurance means no home loan = no home. My home owners insurance dropped me and almost cost me my home loan. I finally found an insurance that only asked you to declare the types of dogs you have and not other pets, though if they knew I had reptiles they would drop me too. The state of Missouri already states that you can't own snakes over 8 feet or venemous snakes and most states or city governments have laws or ordinances already in place limiting what can be owned. Try looking sometime and you'll be surprised what you can and can't own. I would love to think that true freedom is attainable but it's not and it'll never be allowed by any government.

You are correct that is why I stated that giving the government more control over our animals is a faster avenue towards a downward spiral with all exotics being outlawed being the final destination. For every animal that is owned as a pet, their will always be a handfull of owners that do not provide proper care and act with negligence. Should all horse owners be punished and have their right to own horses taken away simply because a few individuals do not know how to care for their animals. The same can be said for any animal, including reptiles. The masses should not be punished for a few bad apples. Todd

Horses are live stock and not pets (according to Missouri state and local laws at least). So the laws are different. I don't know anything about owning horses or live stock so I can't say anything about that other than it should be illegal to keep them in your house and I think it already is. Horses and dogs don't make good comparisons here.

Actually some people keep minature horses inside their homes. At least a few of them have even been trained like seeing eye dogs for disabled people. I know, shocked me too.

>>Horses are live stock and not pets (according to Missouri state and local laws at least). So the laws are different. I don't know anything about owning horses or live stock so I can't say anything about that other than it should be illegal to keep them in your house and I think it already is. Horses and dogs don't make good comparisons here.
-----
Travis Rose
(859) 582-7310
0.2 Normal Columbian
1.1 100% DH for Snow Columbians
0.2 66% DH for Snow Columbians
2.7 Kenyans (1.3 Anerys, 0.1 het for anery, 0.3 Possible hets, 1.0 normal)
0.3 Ball Pythons
0.0.2 Blue Tounged Skinks
0.3 Dogs (1 Full Pitbull, 1 Pit/Husky, & 1 Bernese Mt. Dog cross)
0.3 Cats (1 fat, 1 old, and 1 insane)
1.0 Ferret
0.1 Very understanding wife

I say short answer no because at 13 you don't own your own place yet and burmese pythons get BIG and the decision to own one can only be made by the home owner. Just like you wouldn't go out and buy a dog or other animals without your parents' consent, you shouldn't go out and pickup a burmese python or any other snake without them either.

However, "can" a 13 year old care for a burmese properly? Sure, to a point. There will come a time when you'll need some help with the snake, as it gets bigger, this isn't a knock on your age, I'm 31 and 6 foot tall and a big man, and there are times that "I" need help with a big snake. As long as you have someone who can help you out from time to time (your parents, older or not "much" younger sibling, etc) then a responsible 13 year old should have no real problem caring for such a snake.

I know kids who were breaking horses at 13, and there ain't nothing that can kill you faster than a horse, especially an unbroken one.

That said, when my kid gets older and decides he wants a big snake if I feel like he's reponsible enough to have it he'll get it.

I wouldn't mind having a big burm around again anyway Just waiting for my kid to get old enough and big enough that I feel he can remember to, #1 NOT get into the cage without permission, and #2 remember to NOT smell like food (don't pet the goats/dog/cat/rats/rabbits/etc and then pet the snake without a good thorough hand&arm wash FIRST). If all goes well that should begin being a possibility within 4 more years or so (he's nearly 4 now).
-----
Gary Harris - gary@mydixiesys.com
http://www.dixiesys.com/
http://www.8-95.com/

First off you need to check yourself. you want to conduct yourself in a manner that others will listen to then you should not come into a forum and start attacking the regulars. You are right that you can visit any forums you like and that you can voice your opinion about any topic that you liek, however if you have any kind of intelligence then you would realize that your point will be made and accepted much more readily if you speak in a polite and helpfull manner. By saying that no one should own large snakes doesn't help this hobby at all. The legislaturing bodies will just use this as a stepping stone. Once they pass the "dangerous animal"giants and venomous) then they will slowly and meticuously start increasing the list of prohibited animals. Large snakes are not any more dangerous then any other animal if they are cared for properly. This is what this forum is for. To teach others how to properly care and maintain these wonderfull animals. Todd

First off, I am a educated well standing individual and do not take kindly to being slammed by anyone let alone a faceless individual. I did not state that you said ban, however you were implying some sort of restrictions. Legal restrictions are no more then stepping stones. You are correct that it is getting harder and harder to find a location that will allow you to own exotic pets and it all starts by the attitude that you are portraying. Lets start with the "dangerous" animals and we will see where to go after that. To be completely honast all animals are dangerous. All animals can cause injury, disease and possibly death. That doesn't necassarrily mean that all animals should be restricted however. It means that individuals that are guilty of failing to meet certain guidelines, Proper care, negligence, etc.., should have their right to own animals revoked. Not the general public as a whole. And once again you do have the right to voice your opinion, but to simply voice it to create controversary does not benifit this forum and any other setting. You can have a debate and a strong arguement without resorting to name calling and trying to belittle each other and one uping each other. Todd

All animals do have restrictions. Cats are legal to own but tigers and lions are regulated just like snake ownership should be legal but giant snake ownership should be regulated similarly to venemous snake ownership. Conflict breeds discussion like I said before. Without it none of this would have been discussed at all. Everyone would have said nothing.

however whats stop a misguided parent from buying their 15 year old son a baby retic. This is not a crazy concept. I know personally that it happens with "hots" all the time. YEs the parents should be held responsible but that does not make the bad press any better. The main responsibility in my opinion lies with the breeders. They need to think less about the money and more about the individual sale. If the sale is unacceptable then they should not make it. I am going to get into breeding once I retire form the Army and I WILL have a over 18 policy for all the large species. But that is an individual policy that I will have and hope that it never becomes a mandated law. Todd

I currently breed snakes now and that's why I don't breed anything that I think anyone could handle. The largest snake I currently breed are my Brazilian Rainbow Boas and even some 8-9 year olds could be trusted with these.

It really depends on you, not your age.
I am 16, besides the Ball Python my dad bought me when I was 12 Everything I do and own was payed for and cared for by me. Usually I would say you are too young for a burm, just because of the capable large sizes, I will never go bigger than my 7ft. Red Tail.

At 14 I was keeping Amazon Tree Boas, and at 15 I bred Rough Scaled Sand Boas. I currently have a collection of Boa Constrictors of various subspecies and morphs worth about $11,000. All are cared for by me, this means 23 snakes and I feel I do an excellent job. Besides one breeding pair worth $6000, I have also payed for all the animals and their cages, through refereeing soccer, and sales.

If you honestly think you can handle it, I would say good luck. A lot of people have low expectations of kids, but we need to change that. We should be responsible in more than careing for the animal.

Age is not the question, YOU are.

Good Luck,
Christopher

you alone don't have the finacial means to take care of a snake that big.

that's a very large snake, why do you want to own a snake that big? you have the right to of course, but this is a huge responsibility. you are not going to be able to keep that thing in a 180 gallon tank, let alone the 55's most people start out with. my opinion is that a full grown burmese, or any other snake that grows over say 15 feet, should be kept in a room sized enclosure.

i think large snakes are a lot like hand guns.

here's a pretty good article:

http://www.anapsid.org/burm.html

I read this thread with great intrest as I have kept large boids scince I was 10.My mother liked the idea of pets that did not require daily feeding.By 13 I had several large snakes including a large retic which being an import had a demonic temperment.I was able to handle this snake because experienced snake keepers showed me the ropes.Any one who thinks that being big or strong is going to give you an edge handling large pythons is way off base.If any one is depending on strength to deal with their animals than i think they need to revamp their handling procedure.Any human going head to head with a python over 12' is going to lose,the use of enough force to restrain said animal is stressfull and painfull for the animal,period.I think that if you are intelegent,have the support of your parents and most importantly experienced herpers in your area then you verry well could care for one of these animals.I would like to add one thing though,by the timeri was 16 I had discovered a new passion,getting drunk and haging out with girls and my collection suffered for some months before i did the rite thing and gave them up.Now i'm not saying you'll be like me but i do know that you are going through more changes rite now than you will ever have to deal with again in your life.You may continue to want to keep snakes through them all or you might not,the bigger the snake the harder it is to find it a home.Remember too you will have the rest of your life to collect snakes,I started again after a few years and it was much better,i had more money and i didn't have to ask permision what ever you do try to leave your self room to change your mind.

Exactly what I was thinking while scrolling through a lot of the crap in this loong list of messages.
I've been involved with our local herp club for a number of years and very enthusiastic young herpers are very common. It is just as common though for them to mature in the cars, work, college, girls ect and large herp collections, (or large herps) often become a burden.
For this reason I recommend limiting what you're tied down to until you've settled.

Wait until your a little older and then think about it. I am fifteen and I have three gopher snakes, 2 alligator lizards, 1 crevice spiny lizard, 1 bearded dragon, 1 mexican black kingsnake, and 1 arizona mountain kingsnake. I had a job for awhile to pay for the costs, but it is possible if you really want but make sure your ready for the animals sake.

Justin