Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been lurking here a while, and thought I'd jump in.

Hello, I've been doing animal rescue in a volunteer capacity for a long time. I am always the one who is out pulling rattlers out of people's houses around here, and have a lot of experience working with them in this regard. It saves people a lot of money over calling a pest control company, and I really enjoy it. Not everyone gets to see these beautiful and mis-understood creatures. Now I have kept tons of snakes in the past, just not any venomous ones. But last week I pulled a baby Western Diamondback out from under some ladies couch, and never having seen one this small, I decided to keep it for a month or so. Around here, most of the Western Diamondbacks I remove are at least 3-4ft in length in not larger. Whereas, this one's body is just over a foot, maybe 15". I have the utmost respect for these guys, as they are responsible for the majority of the snake bites in this area. So when I took this photograph, I took it through the glass of the aquarium. He seems really moody, and if he doesn't calm down, I'm gonna release him sooner.

HH,
Carraig

pet, it's a passion!! A pet is a dog (they love you)!!!
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Chad Bachman

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Chad Bachman

I have not been on here in a while, but I now remember why…most of the communication that occurs here is MORONIC!

Most of the stupid arguments are over definitions of words….like “pet”, for example... Merriam-Webster’s Online #2 definition of pet is….and I cut and Paste:” a domesticated animal kept for pleasure rather than utility”. I think that about says it all Chad…What utility have you gotten out of your venomous snakes lately? Careful…say money and you will be excluding those who truly keep venomous snakes just for the sake of keeping them. There’s a beauty in venomous snakes…and there’s a beauty in keeping them. With that appreciation comes respect. With that respect comes other human emotions which result in attachment. Attachment like we develop with a friend, a dog, a cat, a reptile. I’m not saying that reptiles are on the same evolutionary scale as mammals, I’m just saying that every snake I’ve dealt with over time is unique…whether we develop it in our own minds or not, they each have different personalities. Personalities we may mistakenly take for consistent…but personalities we become accustomed to none the less…And if you have not experienced this then you are only a buyer and seller of goods…not a snake lover.

Adam Stockton

Sorry, never bought a snake just to sell it, I keep them so I can play fetch with them.

You have know idea what I'm about, so why assume????
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Chad Bachman

The dictionary makes no mention of "the ability to play fetch" in it’s definition of “pet”. This has nothing to do with what you’re about. You’re saying a captive venomous snake is not a pet. But if it’s not a pet, what is it?...a commodity? A lab specimen?... Maybe in some cases, but as for me and many others, they are pets.

And while we are on definitions, let me try to take a shot at this one myself: “know” means to understand something completely or to be familiar with something…”no” is a negation. You used the wrong one in your reply.

It say's "domesticated" Maybe I missed something, but the last time I checked, snakes weren't domesticated. Cows...dogs...cats...sure. Snakes...no. So no, a venomous snake should NOT be considered a pet.

Thats what I think also. I didn't post that to start crap with anyone, but I'm used to it.
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Chad Bachman

Here’s how m-w.com defines “domesticate”:

1 : to bring into domestic use : ADOPT
2 : to adapt (an animal or plant) to life in intimate association with and to the advantage of humans
3 : to make domestic : fit for domestic life
4 : to bring to the level of ordinary people

Definitions 2, 3, and 4 strike home with me…BUT…what does “intimate” mean?...

1 : to make known especially publicly or formally : ANNOUNCE
2 : to communicate delicately and indirectly : HINT

Definition # 1…Tangential to my point….Definition # 2…A synonymous dynamic for the perfect relationship between a venomous snake, and it’s handler…what could be more intimate?!

Wrong definition in previous post for "intimate". Here's what I was looking for:

Main Entry: 2in·ti·mate
Pronunciation: 'in-t&-m&t
Function: adjective
Etymology: alteration of obsolete intime, from Latin intimus
1 a : INTRINSIC, ESSENTIAL b : belonging to or characterizing one's deepest nature
2 : marked by very close association, contact, or familiarity
3 a : marked by a warm friendship developing through long association b : suggesting informal warmth or privacy
4 : of a very personal or private nature

................But I'm still right.

I hate school. You are wrong about me, thats all.

You complain about negativity in this forum, but you are the only on on this post starting crap. Did the Formosa thing in the post below upset you...LOL. Get a clue!!
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Chad Bachman

Didn't mean to jump on you, it's just that I look at my snakes as pets - dangerous pets - but pets in the sense that they do not benifit me, I take care of them, they depend on me, they each have their own "personality", and I'm attached to them emotionally. Your answering my post about my gabby is cool though and I appreciate that.

Thanks

Personally, I consider my dog and cat to be pets. Regardless of the dictionary definition, by the literal definition I can actually "pet" them. I have trust in them that they will behave in the way that I have trained them (i.e. sit, stay, use the litterbox, etc.) and that they will not harm me at all. Sure, my cats scratches sometimes, he bites, but all in play.

I love snakes. I always have, and always will. I have not made a single penny off of an animal, simply because I have never sold a single animal. At this point, I am PURELY a consumer. I keep my animals in the best condition possible, and they are all doing well. However, I do not trust any hot, or any snake for that matter, to behave in the way that I want it to. If I had a gaboon (I don't), and I stuck my hand in it's cage everyday to change it's water bowl, without any restraint on the snake (I'd be an idiot), and it never struck at me, the next time I stuck my hand it, it very well could. Just because it hadn't before, it doesn't mean I trained it for anything. Bottom line: You can NEVER trust a snake, venomous or not! They will never be trained, they will never have any affection for the keeper, and they will be more than happy to kill you and not have a single regret about it when your turning all sorts of funny shades of blue on the floor.

That to me keeps them from being pets. Don't get me wrong, if my house were on fire, I would make a valiant effort to save all my animals, venomous or not, even if it put me at a greater risk than I'd like. I may not succeed, but I sure would try. I love my snakes. However, for me, calling a hot a "pet" makes me cringe. If you want to call them that, it's fine, but it just looks wrong when someone posts a message saying "look at my new pet cobra".

As far as the whole "domesticated" thing goes, the dictionary might say one thing, but the usage of the word in the real world generally means an animal that has been accustomed to human interaction. If I went out and captured a wolf, and brought it home, it would not be domesticated by most peoples standards. It would still be WILD. And yes, a snake produced in captivity is still a WILD animal. Dogs are DOMESTICATED versions of wolves. Wolves are NOT domesticated.

Okay, I need some coffee. Sorry to rant for so long, I surely didn't mean to. In any case, pet or not, I really don't give a crap anymore.

I'm no expert on Crotalus, but it seems to me that your "western diamondback" is not a western diamondback. When I first saw the picture I was thinking northern or southern pacific, but that was before I read the text. I don't know where you live, but I'm almost positive that is not an atrox. It could be a mojave, or a western/prairie intergrade, I don't know. Hopefully someone else a bit more Crote knowledgable will respond with the correct i.d. I'd just hate for you to get tagged by this snake and give the wrong description to the attending physician. True, all native US Crotes are treated with the same AV, but I'm betting there are massive differences between an atrox bite and a mojave bite.
-Chance
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Chance Duncan

Thanks for the heads up. I don't know then, but the reason I said Western Diamondback is because that's what's most common around here, and the black and white stripes on the tail seem pretty indicative. Location is Central Californian Coast

Thanks,
Carraig

Western Diamondbacks are not common on the Central California coast, in fact they don't exist there at all. That looks like a Southern Pacific.

Yeah diamondbacks arent common in Cali until you get near the Az border. I thought that was a northern or southern pacific as well, awesome snake.

If what others are suggesting is correct, and I believe they are (it is either a southern or northern pacific), this little tidbit of info would be quite handy for your doctor if you ever had the misfortune to be bitten by it. I believe the venom of those two snakes is in pretty stark contrast from a western, and I know I'd want my doctor to be absolutely sure about what species it was that got me and about what to expect in general from bites from that species. Anyway, he's a cute little guy, but as everyone has said, be careful. I tend to agree with Chad Bachman on this one, no venomous snake qualifies as a "pet." In fact, I don't personally believe any snake really qualifieds as a pet, but some can become fairly socialized. I understand that you were using that term loosely, I guess I'm just a bit more picky Keep up the cool shots.
-Chance
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Chance Duncan
http://www.rivervalleysnakes.com

So many arguments boil down to how each of us defines a certain word. Words are ambiguous. My point is that under strict definition, a venomous snake can be considered a pet. Furthermore, had I asked in my original post, “Help, my pet gaboon is sick”, I don’t care to be lectured on the accepted terminology according to the Kingsnake.com venomous forum gurus…I just want to help my pet gabby. To me she is DEFINITELY a pet.

Adam

Knowing how doctors work makes me worry about all the people who have aberrant N. kaouthia, and think they actually have N. atra?? The people who own these snakes don't want to hear it, but I know where they came from, and they better hope they don't have a retarded doctor, who doesn't know about AV.

BE CAREFUL EVERYBODY WITH FORMOSA ISLAND COBRAS LOL!! Actually, just listen to somebody that knows what they are talking about and you may be okay.
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Chad Bachman

Chance is right, Not an Atrox...maybe an intergrade as he suggested. Also like a Western massasauga to me from the picture. Get a pic of the head plates,a difference between Sisturus & Crots is a key difference.

Good Luck,

Al

>>I've been lurking here a while, and thought I'd jump in.
>>
>> Hello, I've been doing animal rescue in a volunteer capacity for a long time. I am always the one who is out pulling rattlers out of people's houses around here, and have a lot of experience working with them in this regard. It saves people a lot of money over calling a pest control company, and I really enjoy it. Not everyone gets to see these beautiful and mis-understood creatures. Now I have kept tons of snakes in the past, just not any venomous ones. But last week I pulled a baby Western Diamondback out from under some ladies couch, and never having seen one this small, I decided to keep it for a month or so. Around here, most of the Western Diamondbacks I remove are at least 3-4ft in length in not larger. Whereas, this one's body is just over a foot, maybe 15". I have the utmost respect for these guys, as they are responsible for the majority of the snake bites in this area. So when I took this photograph, I took it through the glass of the aquarium. He seems really moody, and if he doesn't calm down, I'm gonna release him sooner.
>>
>>HH,
>>Carraig
>>

Read his second post, you are not going to find Massasaugas on the central coast of California, the only Rattlers found would be Southern or Northern Pacifics, depending on his exact location.

It is understandable that you made a mistake with the identification. when i first got into snakes, I learned the same way most of us start learning, by listening to others. I soon learned that here in West Virginia, diamondbacks and cotton mouths are a big problem. which is absurd since neither exist here. I'm sure the same must be true in California. every rattlesnake is a diamondback, simply because that name is the most recognizable by the average person. Take whatever someones has to say with a grain of salt, and learn for yourself. good luck and stay safe. chris

Thats exactly right. I live in southern california and everyone says we have diamondbacks. Diamondbacks only occur near the arizona border (unless we are talking red diamonds C. ruber), but everyone seems to think we have them here in the high desert of central cali. Actually, two of the three local species have diamonds on their backs, so it is easy to confuse them. You see diamonds, you think diamondback. Thats what he did here too.

What snakes are confused with diamondbacks and cottonmouths there?

Wow, seems like my post turned out to be pretty controversial. Let me clarify a couple of things. One, as for pet or not a pet, all the animals I keep are called pets. When you move into an apartment, it doesn't matter what animals you have, they ask about them in the field called "pets". They don't say "pets" in one field and "animals you keep and care for that aren't pets" in another field. I don't pet the snake, give me a little credit there. And yes, those of you who commented about it are right, it's not a western diamondback, it's a northern pacific. Around here, they've always been called Diamondbacks. I should've known better because I relocate them on a regular basis, but I took other peoples words for it and never thought they'd be wrong.

So for that, I appreciate it.

Thanks,
Carraig

here in West Virginia they call all water snakes cottton mouths and all timber rattlesnakes diamondbacks
chris

Wow, you people are WAY too uptight.

Chill out.

J
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2.2 Solomen Island ground boas
0.1 Solomen Island tree boa
1.0 green tree python
1.0 jungle carpet python
1.0 coastal carpet python
1.0 Boa constrictor imperator
0.1 Borneo short-tailed (blood) python
...and as always a plethora of rescues awaiting new homes