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Something to chew on

mrand Sep 05, 2004 10:02 PM

being an enthusiastic student of animal behavior, i thought it might be interesting/useful to build an ethogram of indigo behavior and place it on the website as a guide to new owners.

having experience with a few other species didn't quite prepare me for what i've been seeing with the indigos. i've been pretty impressed with some of the cool stuff my pair have been displaying, and this is all solo stuff.

Q.1 -- do all Drymarchon "sniff" vigorously when they go into the feeding response?

Q.2 -- my male tends to keep his throat inflated (not the lateral compression of the neck) when i'm handling him. the female displays this occasionally, but only briefly.

Q.3 -- does anyone else think that indigos seem to salivate more during swallowing than other colubrid species?

i can't wait to see the courtship and copulatory behavior of these guys.

matt

Replies (12)

thesnakeman Sep 06, 2004 10:43 AM

Yes to all of the above, with a special emphasis on the salivating! Last night they were slobbering like a St. Bernard!
T.
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"No tree would have branches foolish enough to argue amongst themseleves".

nevermore Sep 06, 2004 09:19 PM

Very cool thread topic. Animal behavior, to me, has always been the most interesting aspect of animal study.

My hatchling eastern, Lenore, sniffs everything very vigorously when she goes into her feeding response. She just recently started displaying the indigo appetite and feeding response, but yesterday I made my first attempt at feeding her pinkies dusted with vitamins and I think it threw her off. She came out of her hide, very alert, ready to eat, but it seemed like the mice didn’t smell quite right to her. She went from mouse to mouse (I left four in the cage) nudging them and sniffing them and then searching the rest of the cage. She seemed frustrated, like she knew there was food but she wasn’t sure what was food. She even nudged and sniffed her branch. Eventually, slowly, she gave in and ate the vitamin dusted pinkies.

One of them, she spat back up, halfway, to get a better hold, and I noticed it was soaked with spit. So I concur with the heavy salivating thing.

A lot of people (myself included) have asked for a more info on the Indigo’s apparent intelligence. Usually the answer is that it’s hard to describe or that indigos seem more “aware” of their surroundings. I’ve noticed something with Lenore that is a little bit of a more specific answer.

It seems to me that indigos are a very “head driven” snake. What I mean is that they constantly cock their heads in different directions to take in their surroundings (which usually is more of a trait for a warm blooded creature, or some lizards). Lenore holds her head up in the air a lot more than past snakes I’ve owned. The other snakes I’ve owned seem more generally aware of their surroundings. If something scares them, they hide, if they are interested (in food) they move forward. But they never really looked around.

Many snakes move with a high economy of motion (reptiles just don’t have the same energy levels than warm blooded animals do). They usually sit in their hides, or on a branch and don’t waste energy with unnecessary movement. Lenore on the other hand, twists her head back and forth, sniffs things, and (in general) seems more active (probably because they have a higher metabolism than many other snakes).

And though Lenore sits in her hide most of the time (she still thinks everything is going to eat her), like many other snakes, she almost always keeps her head peaked out and watches what goes on around her. Even now, she has her head out the top hole of her favorite hide.

I recall, one time, I was observing her while she was moving about her cage, when she noticed me moving and started to back up. I didn’t want to scare her and wanted her to be able to explore her cage, so I ducked down lower than the cage, so I was out of her site line. Rather than go into her hide or deciding that there was no more threat and going about her business (the two options I think most snakes would take) she, instead, peeked her head up over her water bowl to see where I was at. I had disappeared and she wanted to know where I was.

Whether this curiosity and “head driven” nature of the Indigo are signs of a genuinely higher intelligence than the average snake, or just give the impression there of, I could not say.

-Josh
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One female Eastern Indigo. That's right, just one snake. But she's my dream-snake, so back off man.

Sighthunter Sep 07, 2004 12:02 AM

Most of us are pre-occupied feeding and caring for large collections and don,t have time to study intelligence. It would be awsome to have someone that had the time to test intelligence with some problem solving. I train falcons and could give some tips if needed. I have witnessed low level problem solving in my coachwhips and have some testing in mind. It is fun given the fact they can see well at distance and are very high strung. Would you like to teach your Indigo to drink from a water bottle? There are certain people on this forum currently working on this. It shouldn,t be too hard, just ask if interested.

nevermore Sep 07, 2004 12:23 AM

I'd be very interested in this. I have a very small collection (one snake), and she stays in my room, so I see have a lot of time to observe her during the day (I'm a student, and most of my work is done on the computer, in my room).

Any tips you have would certainly be appreciated. The water bottle thing would be very cool too.

I don't have a large collection and I'm not a breeder...so I figure my contrebution to the Indigo will be to eventaully raise a big, beautiful, tame snake to win people over at educational programs (I'm pretty good with crowds myself...hardly ever bite). And a snake drinking out of a water bottle is the sort of quirky, humanizing thing that can calm a snake fearing individual.

So, by all means...
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One female Eastern Indigo. That's right, just one snake. But she's my dream-snake, so back off man.

thesnakeman Sep 07, 2004 11:38 AM

Ditto! Please post all behavioural study results as I am sure most of us would be fascinated! And tell us how to teach a snake to drink from a water bottle. I don't know if I will attempt this, but I always want to learn all I can about these remarkable animals. I also have a fairly small collection, about 10 snakes in all, unless I am successful at breeding and get babies. So I have time to perform experiments, and make observations. I would be happy to share the results.
T.
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"No tree would have branches foolish enough to argue amongst themseleves".

Sighthunter Sep 07, 2004 07:58 PM

If I was limited to one snake an Indigo would be at the top. When training you bridge behavior. Example, snake first knows where water is located, same place every time. Next, after snake relies on this, change one variable such as no water bowl just a trickle of water runing down the side of the cage into a drain! A simple recirculating fish pump with flow restricter would work. See if an Indigo can learn first to drink from a trickle runing down the side of the cage where the water bowl used to be? It may take time to master it. It is ok to put water bowl in every other day until snake gets good at sipping.I have a Trans Pecos Rat Snake that licks condensation with its tongue! If you get your Indigo to do this I will give you anoter piece of the bridge. Good Luck, small steps and patience.

thesnakeman Sep 07, 2004 10:23 PM

Not sure if I actualy want to do it, until I get all the peices.
T.
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"No tree would have branches foolish enough to argue amongst themseleves".

Sighthunter Sep 07, 2004 11:20 PM

There are only two pieces left. Once they are sipping from the stream of water and able to do it with eficiancy and regularity ( they have established it) build another bridge. Take the behavior to another level. Edstrom makes a dripper with a stainless pin that can be adjusted from a drip to on demand. By pushing the pin they can get water to come out. It can be adjusted with a very slow drip and when they push they can get a mouth full. Once they get good enough, switch to on demand only. The Indigos curious nature and suposed inteligence makes them a prime candidate. Young animals have the greatest ability to learn due to the fact that they have to evolve to their surroundings to survive. Older animals may be set in their way. If I had the time I would consider this a fairly easy project.

nevermore Sep 08, 2004 12:57 AM

Sighthunter, you're defintely right about young animals. If I want to train my indigo the time would be now. I think I might give it a shot in about a week. The only snag I forsee is that Lenore (my snake) is still pretty secretive. I have yet to see her even take a sip of water. I know she's drinking...I've had her too long for her not to be and healthy. So the problem is, it might be some time before I'm able to assertain if she's drinking confidently on any of the brdige steps - which means I'm going to err (big time) on the side of caution as far as giving back her water bowl on a regular basis (as indigos need their water).

I'll need to go into the pet shop and ask some questions as I've never had any fish and don't know anything about water pumps.
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One female Eastern Indigo. That's right, just one snake. But she's my dream-snake, so back off man.

epidemic Sep 09, 2004 11:31 AM

While not exactly within the confines of captivity, I have encountered wild couperi drinking water from hoses and water sprinklers in So. Florida, during dry periods.
While living in Homestead, FL I met an elderly gentleman, who owned 50 acres of undeveloped property, adjacent to a bird sanctuary. He told me of a couperi which visited his residence weekly, to feed on dry dog food from a bowl. At the time, I thought he was joking..

Jeff

oldherper Sep 09, 2004 10:09 PM

>>While not exactly within the confines of captivity, I have encountered wild couperi drinking water from hoses and water sprinklers in So. Florida, during dry periods.
>>While living in Homestead, FL I met an elderly gentleman, who owned 50 acres of undeveloped property, adjacent to a bird sanctuary. He told me of a couperi which visited his residence weekly, to feed on dry dog food from a bowl. At the time, I thought he was joking..
>>
>>Jeff

I give baby snakes water from the end of a syringe all the time, and they drink from it with no probloms...sort of like giving a human baby a bottle.
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

AZRaptor Sep 14, 2004 02:57 PM

Sighthunter:

What state do you train falcons in?

I've been studying for my falconry license, but looks like I am going to have to put that dream off for a bit since I'm pretty sure the mews will be a violation of my HOA. So until I can move out to a location with more land (and less restrictions) I'm probably going to focus on my interest in Eastern Indigos and the hobby of photographing raptors and reptiles.
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0 of 3 goals complete, but all in good time.

- Eastern Indigo
- Redtail Hawk
- Neopolitan Mastiff

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