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Morelia carinata

sinael Jun 25, 2003 06:17 PM

Hi,

I've heard a few times that there are Morlia carinatas in the US.

Not very surprising that there are carinatas outside australia, for sure, since people who want carinatas can get them smuggled.

But the astonishing detail in this story is, that I've heard that there are "legal" animals in the US?

Does anyone know if this is true?
I've heard of no zoo having these animals, but maybe some of you know more about this "legal-carinata-story".

I'm not interested in having some of these, just wandering if the story i was told is true?!?

thx, sinael

Replies (12)

Jaymz Jun 25, 2003 08:33 PM

there have only been a handful, 6, maybe 1 or 2 more, found in the wild. and with only a handful ever produced in captivity this is THE rarest python in the world. there are none outside of australia, and if there are (there arent) they would be far from legal. unless i missed something, but i doubt it, id sell my family for a pair, thats alot of people. but rest assured what youve heard is not true, if there were carinata here everyone would hear about it.

j
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Jaymz
"got a bowlin ball in my stomache, got a desert in my mouth. figures that my courage would choose to sell out now..."

JakeM Jun 25, 2003 10:39 PM

I plan on breeding them within the next 10 years.

Jake

BH Jun 25, 2003 10:47 PM

Is that you Brian Smith?

LMAO

Bo

John Veazey Jun 26, 2003 12:25 PM

np

sinael Jun 26, 2003 12:59 PM

I'm sure now, someone wanted to fool me by telling me this story, thanks a lot for your answers.

Back to the numbers of captive bred carinatas in australia: I was told that John Weigel produced 15 juveniles from two pairs of wc carinatas in 2000. These animals were given to 3 different zoos inside australia. Maybe now, 3 years later there are more carinatas and maybe, there exists also F2 offspring.

I think Morelia carinata is the rarest python species for sure, but i think also that there will be some available within the next 10 or 15 years.

thanks for your comments

sinael

P.S. I'm not Brian D, neither do I know this guy

Jaymz Jun 26, 2003 02:40 PM

its doubtful anyone will see legal (or otherwise) carinata outside of australia, not only do they have a very limited range (one tiny little patch of relic monsoon forest in a tiny patch of australia) but australia has some amazingly strict rules when it comes to their native (and really even the non native) animals. they cut off exports (and imports) in the 60s. and given the fact that 4 out of 6 wild specimens are in zoos, along with the captive produced offspring its doubtful even the most advanced, licensed herpetoculturists in australia will get to work with them soon. same with oenpelliensis, reportedly common in its range, but almost unknown outside of australia. but there are rumors of some legal Morelia oenpelliensis in canada, along with some captive breeding, id really like to find out, and if its true get my hands on a pair of em.
-----
Jaymz
"got a bowlin ball in my stomache, got a desert in my mouth. figures that my courage would choose to sell out now..."

sinael Jun 26, 2003 06:39 PM

The point why I said that I think we will see carinatas in the far future is, that I've heard that animals can be imported by zoos from Australia. Unfortunatelly no private collector can import animals from Aus.

On the other hand, look at all the "legal" bredli, womas, black headed pythons, Dwarf Pythons and also at the whole carpet subspecies and diamonds.

Don't you think its naive to believe, that these animals descended from a "founder stock" of animals imported in the 1960s?

To me it is quite clear, that most of our animals today are offspring of illegal animals.
But I don't care about that, since the most animals today are really captive bred.

Another possibility to get legal wc australian animals is, to get animals that were smuggeld outside australia but confiscated.

And this is what I could imagine has happend. Maybe one guy smuggled them, they were confiscated and given to a zoo or private collector. These animals should be legal in the hands of the person they were given to.

regards, sinael

Jaymz Jun 26, 2003 07:49 PM

im far from naive, but i do know exactly how much of a treasure carinata are in australia, and i doubt that theyve lost track of the animals produced in the limited time carinata have been in captivity. im well aware most of our aussie pythons were more than likely smuggled in over the years, but they arent carinata, and there arent less than 20 known to be alive right now.

you are 100% correct, australia VERY VERY VERY occasionally allows an export of an animal (or several animals) to zoos outside of australia. but again, with an unstable wild population, lets face it Morelia carinata could very well be extinct in the wild, its highly unlikely that the australia government is going to allow a single carinata out of the country. and in honesty they dont really allow much exportation for zoos, from what ive been able to dig up it happens about as often as a full solor eclipse. then comes the problem of getting a zoo in any country to release any of the carinata offspring they produce. carinata are a very valued animal, its not terribly likely that anyone alive now will own one (that doesnt mean i wouldnt sell several of my family members or various parts there of for a pair) but it might happen. we arent talking about a common snake that can be found in someones yard, this is a snake that has had 6 to 8 specimens found, ever, with the first clutch of 9, and i dont remember hearing about any others, thats 15 to 17 carinata in the world, a number easily tracked at all time, and you can bet theyll be counted, recounted, and counted one last time quite often. but atleast now any avid herper that knows what carinata are, and youd be amazed at how many very involved python keepers dont know and have never heard of morelia carinata, can see carinata in australia, which is a great goal for me. i must say tho, this has been a great topic, devoid of any childishness. i LOVE topics like this.

J
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Jaymz
"got a bowlin ball in my stomache, got a desert in my mouth. figures that my courage would choose to sell out now..."

sinael Jun 27, 2003 12:42 PM

Hey Jaymez,

First, I got to say that I didn't want to insult you by saying anything about naivity.
I wrote this yesterday night, and by a second reading today, I noted that it may sound a little hard, sorry for that.

Second, maybe I didn't understand you right, but what do you think about this scenario of confiscated animals?

And third, I've recently heard that one could get Morelia oenpelliensis "legal" from indonesia. I haven't ever heard about a population of oenpelliensis in indonesia, so maybe these animals descended also from a smuggled stock. But its a possibility to get them "legal".

regards, sinael

Jaymz Jun 27, 2003 02:00 PM

lol i didnt even think about it that way, lol i was just stating, no hard feelings, i love this topic, oenpelliensis and carinata are among my favorite snakes, actually they are part of my top 10, i think lol. confiscation is one way to eventually obtain legal stock, and in some ways its a good thing, but in others not so much. it has and im sure will keep happening. about the oenpelliensis, WHERE DID YOU FIND THAT OUT lol, id seriously sell various family members kidneys for them, id sell my own but diabetics have bad kidneys so there goes that option. i probably shouldnt add too many more species to my list of what i absolutely must work with, but i think oenpelliensis is a worthy exception. again great topic, theres hardly ever discussion of the 2 lost morelia, i think ive only seen a handful of pictures of either species, but i gotta say, for something thats not a scrub carinata and oenpelliensis are both amazingly beautiful animals.
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Jaymz
"got a bowlin ball in my stomache, got a desert in my mouth. figures that my courage would choose to sell out now..."

sinael Jun 27, 2003 04:35 PM

Hi again!

So back to the oenpelliensis:

I live in europe and have heard a few times about that some people have some here.

To be precise, in this "legal-oenpelli-case" I was told that they came as an import from an indonesian "Snake-Farm".

Its up to you to believe if they were truely captive bred in this farm or not, but they got legal CITES.

...this is just as far as I've heard...

I can try to get the adress of the Exporter and tell you then, but at the moment ist all rumours...

Maybe this whole story isn't true...

... but maybe it is, so keep your family in good health if you want to sell them

sinael

Jaymz Jun 28, 2003 12:44 AM

thanks again, and dont worry, i just made sure all of their health and life insurance is paid up lol. maybe those oenpellis were smuggled originally, their range lies entirely in australia, but who knows. i sure wouldnt mind em in my collection, itd just be a matter of getting the eggs to hatch.

J
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Jaymz
"got a bowlin ball in my stomache, got a desert in my mouth. figures that my courage would choose to sell out now..."

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