Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This Kerry (swift boat) drama has well illustrated how innuendo and smear politics work.

It is obvious that the only people who know for a fact how Kerry recieved his wounds are the people who actually witnessed the events (those that were on the boat with him back his story).

What has happened here is that people who were not actually there to see the events are having their opinions recorded which are presented to the public as Facts.

The advantage here, is that they know the average public does not have the means to verify the truth of any of it and will generally go with what sounds right(if it fits their political preference).

Smears like this are done in the hopes of influencing votes and generally don't need the burden of proof to be effective. Just start a rumor and the damage will be done.

A classic example was when Pres. Lyndon Johnson allowed the rumor to go out that Sen. Goldwater would use nuclear weapons in Vietnam. The horror of a nuclear war was enough to make most people vote for the "peace candidate". Johnson was elected and then escallated the war to it's highest level (to date).

That is the nature of politics....

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

It is obvious that the only people who know for a fact how Kerry recieved his wounds are the people who actually witnessed the events (those that were on the boat with him back his story).

I agree completely, which is why I believe the sworn affidavits (of about 90%) of those who were serving with Kerry either on his boat, or on boats that accompanied him, his doctors, and his commanding officers over a very small number of people that support him. Again, I can't know for sure who is telling the truth, but I have to go with the story told by a large number of nonpartisans over a different story by a very small group of partisans. Especially when Kerry has now said his statements to congress about war crimes were greatly exaggerated, and when he has been cought up in so many lies.

What has happened here is that people who were not actually there to see the events are having their opinions recorded which are presented to the public as Facts.

Have you read the articles by the swift boat captains? You should. Swift boats opperate in small groups, and the testimony of witnesses on boats that were alongside Kerry's seem to just as valid as anyone else's.

The swift boat captains are a group of nonpartisan soldiers who only link is that they served in Vietnam by Kerry's side. They served either on the boat with Kerry, or on boats that accompanied Kerry's boat on missions.

Their statements are signed affidavits of what they saw, they are not opinions by people that were not there.

Have you read all the contradictory statements by Kerry? Like the fact that his journal states how quiet it had been on the river, and that he was surprised that they hadn't received any enemy fire in weeks? And this was dated shortly after his first purple heart report/application! Think he just forgot that he hadn't been shot at when trying to get a purple heart? That he way lying in his journal? Or do you think he was manipulating the system by trying to get his purple hearts fraudulently? I'd guess the later is the most likely.

For those that haven't read any of this, I suggest you do.

swift4.he.net/~swift4/index.php

Do you remember how this all started? A number of the swift boat vets. asked Kerry that he not use their photos in his campaign, and they stated that they didn't give him permission to use their photos. He refused to stop using their photos, they threatened a law suit, a bunch of other vets. heard about this and signed on, and here we are.

Rodney

Actually...As an ex Navy Quartermaster I do have a familiarity. Only an accident that ended my military career kept me from serving on one.

I will stick with the small group that was closest(on board) because in battle, you are generally too busy trying to save your own crew's life over seeing how someone in another boat got wounded. Majority rule does not apply in this case.

As to all quiet for weeks...any vet will tell you it is all quiet....till it's not. Thats just how it is.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

As to all quiet for weeks...any vet will tell you it is all quiet....till it's not. Thats just how it is

This is not the issue. The amount of time that he was not in harms way is irrelevant. The issue is that Kerry applied for his first purple heart within 24 hours of being on a swift boat. His shipmates, and the other swift boat captains and their shipmates all said that there was no enemy fire. Kerry's own diary stated that he was surprised that they had not been shot at during the first 3 weeks of his deployment. So how did he get this purple heart, when the rules state that no self inflicted accidental injury is eligible for a purple heart unless it is received during combat? (accidental, self inflicted injuries are eligible during combat). He clearly wasn't shot by the enemy, according to both his shipmates and his diary. He also clearly wasn't accidentally injured during combat, again, according to his shipmates, his diary, his doctor, and his commanding officer.

This excludes him from eligibility for a purple heart for this incidence. The doctor and his commanding officer told him no for this reason, when he requested one, and he was later able to find a doctor that would sign off on it. Don't you think it is a lot more likely that he was lying to get this purple heart fraudulently? (than the other possible story that all of his shipmates are lying, and he was lying in his journal when he said he hadn't seen any enemy fire for the first 3 weeks of his deployment?) Why would he lie in his journal about enemy fire if he had actually been shot at?

I think this guy is either a pathological liar or delusional.

Have you seen this story about him?

VC surfaces
A new four-legged angle -- actually a dog named "VC" -- has suddenly materialized surrounding Sen. John Kerry's swift boat service in Vietnam.
In a 2004 presidential candidate questionnaire for Humane USA, Mr. Kerry was asked whether any pets have had an impact on his life.
"I have always had pets in my life, and there are a few that I remember very fondly," Mr. Kerry replied. "When I was serving on a Swift Boat in Vietnam, my crewmates and I had a dog we called VC.
"One day as our Swift Boat was heading up a river, a mine exploded hard under our boat," he continued. "After picking ourselves up, we discovered VC was MIA (missing in action). Several minutes of frantic search followed, after which we thought we'd lost him. We were relieved when another boat called asking if we were missing a dog."
Said Mr. Kerry: "It turns out VC was catapulted from the deck of our boat and landed, confused but unhurt, on the deck of another boat in our patrol."
J.J. Scheele, program director of Humane USA, confirmed yesterday that her organization did, in fact, receive the above statement from the Kerry campaign.
No military records on Mr. Kerry's Web site, which aides say is a complete accounting, mention a mine exploding under his boat or any dog. The only report of a mine detonating "near" Mr. Kerry's PCF 94 was March 13, 1969, when Mr. Kerry says he was injured and a man knocked overboard.

The swift boat vets. that served on his boat were asked about this, and no one remembers any dog or this incidence either. Think he is making up another story to try and get the animal lovers' votes? Pretty crazy story. A dog is blown off a boat and lands on another boat unharmed? He missed the water? What are the chances of that, and what are the chances that that this could even happen? What are the chances that no one on the boat remembers a dog (except Kerry when talking to the Humane society)?

Rodney

You don't get Purple Hearts for non combat injury. (You are right as am I) So that Kerry got - not one, but three for non combat injuries is just plain unheard of. It's kind of like expecting Gerald Ford to climb down a ladder without falling (highly unlikely) lol.

That is why I cannot reconcile these so called "new Revelations" with the facts. Again...as part of my job I had to be familiar with the regulations. To do this someone would have had to pass the recommendation thru the chain of command and that would mean a paper trail. The military does not look kindly on falsely awarding medals. Someones ass would be in the pan right now if this were true.

I would like to see that....

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I think these "new revelations" occurred because of the way Kerry came into public view.

Kerry was way down in the polls, until Dean self-destructed, then every democrat jumped on his ticket.

Then the scrutiny began, and the problems began to surface. If Kerry had shown a stronger showing earlier on, and had been scrutinized earlier on as well, I don't think he ever would have become the democratic nominee because of all these "problems"

Rodney

Is it too late to vote for Mickey mouse? (lol)

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."