Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anybody know of a good sillicne sealant that can be kept underwater? I have both the GE Window and Door Silicone II, and the GE Kitchen and Bath Silicone II, but the both say not to use them in aquariums. So I need something that will work in water without messing up the water. Thanks

I'm not sure but try the tube that says 100% silicone. I've never used it for underwater applications but I've used some silicone sealants in the past that contain silicone and were water based, therfore would not hold up in water. I believe the tube labled 100% silicone should work. It is also the same brand as you mentioned.

DZ

That's exactly what it says on the tube. I got some at Home Depot in the paint section. They only have it in 2.8 ounce tubes, but it says on the tube that when it cures it is non toxic to fish. My finger burned for two days after applying it though-apparently it has some low acid something in it. I read the instructions after I used it, naturally.

In fact the products you have would probably work as well. GE is just being overly cautious when recommending these particular products not be used in aquaria.

However, I personally would not use them. Better safe than sorry, IMO.

But my point is that you don't necessarily need to find a product that specifically states it is safe for aquaria. Just look for the 100% label.
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1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

I work in the paint center @ home depot and I was talking to the GE vendor a month or so ago on this very issue. When it says 100% silicone, it is saying 100% of the sealant is silicone. there are still other additaves in the silicone which are toxic to fish and other animals...including humans. These are basically midlewcides and such. If you put this in an aquairum, then it will kill anything in it. Period. I don't even use it in a vivarium...I still use the aquarium sealant. Home depot is the cheapest i've found it at, it costs like $30 at a tropical fish store.
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

Battling ignorance one stupid person at a time.

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat(Lola)
1.0 Neonate Black Rat (het for Lic Stk's) (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds ("Bill" and "The Bride aka Beatrix Kiddo" )

>>NOT ALWAYS

Well that's why I used the word "should"...

Regardless, many in the fish trade consider the line GE fed you to be a bunch of bunk to sell an identical product for more money. Personally I feel GE is doing a smart thing. By marketing a product that specifically states "safe for aquarium use" they're removing any confusion for the prospective buyer. I'm sure these products have minimal distributition so the labeling costs can easily account for the price differences.

I have no problem with that.

>>These are basically midlewcides and such. If you put this in an aquairum, then it will kill anything in it. Period.

Actually, there are studies showing that many species of pet-trade fish are apparently unaffected by the mold inhibitors.

Regardless, I have no concern with a hobbyist spending a bit more money to insure a silicone product does not contain mold inhibitors.

It's certainly possible that the terminology associated with 100% Silicone has changed. Again, the safe choice is to buy the product specifically made for aquaria.

I will add, however, that I have personally witnessed both a large zoo and a university research facility using the "basic" 100% silicone products for their aquaria, including those that housed delicate marine invertebrates.
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1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

I agree that there are many companies out there that sell the exact same product under multiple different names. When you look at GE 100% silicone, the window and door is different from the kitchen and bath which is different from roofing, which is differnet from gutter and aluminum..etc. you get my point. There are more than mildewcides in these products.

When you say that you have seen it used with many delicate marine invertebrates...this brings up a question. This was possibly a salt water tank, wasn't it? And the ratio of water to amount of that particular silicone used in the tank was much greater than that of a typical home tank. First off the salt could neutralize some of these chemicals...i'm not really sure what they are in there...or it could have been so diluted that it wouldnt hurt them. I'm not trying to call you an idiot by any means please dont think that, i greatly have appreciated your help in the past (and hopefully in the future lol), i'm just putting out all these different variables that could have been thrown into the equation.

I don't know what is in these other "100% silicone" products..there could be some that ARE perfectly safe for aquaira use...I just dont personally want to try it on my own fish, then have a tank thats pretty much useless, ya know? lol.
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

Battling ignorance one stupid person at a time.

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat(Lola)
1.0 Neonate Black Rat (het for Lic Stk's) (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds ("Bill" and "The Bride aka Beatrix Kiddo" )

>>I agree that there are many companies out there that sell the exact same product under multiple different names. When you look at GE 100% silicone, the window and door is different from the kitchen and bath which is different from roofing, which is differnet from gutter and aluminum..etc. you get my point. There are more than mildewcides in these products.

That's a good point. I have not looked specifically at GE's products in a while. At least not all of them.

>>When you say that you have seen it used with many delicate marine invertebrates...this brings up a question. This was possibly a salt water tank, wasn't it?

Not necessarily. I'm talking about literally hundreds of tanks varying from 5 gallons to 500 gallons, marine, brackish, and fresh. Invertebrates in all of them, which are generally thought to be the most sensitive to the anti-mildew products added to caulk.

Most of the tanks in question had elaborate experimental chambers and/or feeding stations siliconed in. And I'm talking copious amounts in relatively small tanks.

Regardless, I strongly suspect that the products used were indeed "pure" silicone with no additional chemicals. But they were not labeled safe for aquarium use.

Whether GE's products have additional chemicals added I don't know. After reading your posts I'm inclined to believe that is the case.

I guess my only "gripe" with your post (and like you, I don't mean at all to sound like I'm calling you an idiot) is that you were dogmatic in stating that silicone products with anti-mildew agents would kill fish with no exception.

There are studies clearly showing that is not the case.
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1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.4 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Well the reason I was fairly dogmatic on the way saying "all will kill 'em" is because there are so many people out there who go "oh..thats like $3 cheaper...ehhh...he said it may not....im gonna give it a try" and end up killing everything. I dont suspect many people here to try that...at least those of us who are serious on our pets at least...but there are people like that, so to keep that idea out of their head I just say everything...for the simple fact it alleviate's that problem.
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

Battling ignorance one stupid person at a time.

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat(Lola)
1.0 Neonate Black Rat (het for Lic Stk's) (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds ("Bill" and "The Bride aka Beatrix Kiddo" )

I've always used the GE 100% silicone for Kitchen and Bath and have been recommending it to my customers for years for repairing and building aquaria. To date not a single loss can be attributed to the silicone. This is a different product than their Tub and Tile which does contain mildacides. If it's safe for food service areas it should be safe for aquariam usage.

Just my 2cents.
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Hope this helps.

BigT

Hello,

Just thought I'd weigh in on this thread in case anyone was still paying attention. Famed Green Tree Python breeder Greg Maxwell recommends the use of the GE Silicone II [100 percent silicone], if you're constructing cages based on the plans on his website [www.finegtps.com]. Of course GTPs need to be kept in high humidity environments and he has apparently been using this type of cage design for quite some time and seen no ill effects on his animals. I used some of the silicone II in one of my most recent cages and so far have experienced no problems either. I think even under lots of water contact there's not likely to be any problems. There is a 100 percent no-additive silicone manufactured by Perfecto but I've never seen it sold for less than about $12 a tube - huge markup!
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Matt Campbell
Animal Keeper, Small Mammal/Reptile House
Lincoln Park Zoo Chicago, Illinois

Assistant Curator
Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, Illinois