Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey gang,

I had some questions about feeding. My indigo hatchling now has her appetite on (pretty consistantly) and will eat anyware from 3 to 4 mouse pinkies every 3 days. Is that too much? What is a good amount? I want to raise a quick growing and robust girl, but I definitely don't want her obese (once those dazzling scales start stretching over the skin, I think they start to loose alot of their inherent beauty).

Also, is variety important? What kind of things do you feed your indigo for variety? I know about mice and rats and quail. Does anyone feed their Drys anything else. I know other herps aren't really good because of pests and diseases (and I certainly don't want to take those chances).

Also, what about tug of war and hunting enrichment. I purchased a long set of tongs. Should I tease her a bit, let her tug on it, give her the thrill of the hunt? Will this accociate me with food too much (I also got a snake hook and plan on getting her used to that routine). Will tug of war put her in danger of breaking teeth?

thanks in advance,

Josh
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One female Eastern Indigo. That's right, just one snake. But she's my dream-snake, so back off man.

Instead of that many pinks I would substitute at least two fuzzy mice, f/t, for each meal. As soon as you can move up to f/t small adult mice. During at least the first year I don't think you can overfeed an indigo. Less than a year from now I would want to have her taking at least one small rat, f/t, for each meal. Texas indigos I'm raising from past June hatch are now on small adult mice. Eastern hatchlings should be taking the same before November. They started slower after hatching. All adults and sub-adults here are taking small to medium rats. I believe chicken parts, fish etc. either lack full nutrition or make for messier and smellier cages. Gentle tugging with food shouldn't hurt your Indigo, but why take the chance? Unless she's a reluctant feeder just leave her with food in the dark to feed without stress. Enjoy raising her from a beautiful hatchling to an impressive adult.

Thanks for the reply. I switched her to fuzzies. She ate two today and was still cruising the cage.
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One female Eastern Indigo. That's right, just one snake. But she's my dream-snake, so back off man.

it's tough to get much variety in their diet when they're hatchlings, but i definitely agree with sizing up. the faster you can hair into the feces the less runny it seems to get. i'm wondering if that belly full of milk in the pinks is adding to the runny stool. also, the bigger the rodent, the more calcified bone. i feed my adults rats, mice, quail, and chicks.

as for behavioral enrichment... one of the things i like to do, more for my own interest than for the snake's enrichment, is lay down a scent trail leading from the opening of the hide, along the floor of the cage and up onto the hide box. you have to sneak up on the adults, because normally they're pretty keen on any activity around their cage.

matt

I personaly don't like to encourage mine to be aggresive at feeding time. I want them to eat well, but thrash around as little as possible. I make sure they get plenty of exorsise. And I don't want them to strike violently, as either of these behaviours can result in the snake getting hurt. Granted,...sometimes they just go nuts anyway, but mostly just on the first rodent. They get less agressive on each one, until they just sniff or nudge it when they are full. I am happier to see them slowly, and gently take the food item from the tongs. I don't like to let them pick it up off the floor either. I am thinking about placeing the food on a plate, and putting that in the cage for them to feed at will. I have tried this in the past with mixed results. You must be very careful with tongs! That first strike especialy. When the snake strikes, it does not expext to hit a pair of stainless steel 18" hemos. It expects to hit a soft fuzzy rodent, and it wants to do maximum dammage. If your not careful, the snake can hit those hemos with enough force to do serious dammage to the inside of it's mouth. Then youve got real problems!

When I feed, I take the following into consideration,...
How hungry is the animal?!
What objects are close by?
How big, and powerful is the animal?
Where are all MY body parts in relation to the animal?
How large of a food item is it? Larger ones offer more cushion for the impact.
What angle should I hold the tongs to ensure that the snake hits the rat and not the tongs, or{hemos}?
What is the best way to hold the rat to keep as much of it's body as possible between the tongs and the snake?
And I try to hold the tongs as losely as possible, so that if the animal hits it very hard, it will give, instead of injure.
These are just the automatic things that go through my mind every time I feed. Please feel free to critique or add to them. Later,
T.
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"No tree would have branches foolish enough to argue amongst themseleves".

I agree. My snake is eating just fine on her own and I don't really want to make her aggressive. But I was going over old posts on this forum and saw that topic and was curious what people had to say.

Question though: In the past, the snakes I owned had much slower metabolisms than an Indigo. How long should one wait, after feeding, to hold an Indigo (specifically, a young Indigo)?
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One female Eastern Indigo. That's right, just one snake. But she's my dream-snake, so back off man.

I tried not to purposely handle any of my neonates for at least the first year except for my snake inspections by-monthly. IMO it causes too much stress. I try to maintain a feeding rhythm with as little interaction as possible (less stress) better feeding routine. The constant cage cleaning I perform I considered interaction enough. Once the snake hits about three or four foot I start very quiet handle sessions.

Really beautiful snake!

This male is three years old.

Diet: Rats, mice, chicks, fish, and quail.

His favorite is fish. Although not mine to clean up after.

Judging from the pic, he really looks good. Well done.
T.
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"No tree would have branches foolish enough to argue amongst themseleves".

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I always wait at least 24 hrs. after feeding before I pick up and hold any snakes. However, if I find a big pile of poop in the cage at 12 or 18 hrs. after, I will go ahead and very gently move them into a holding box while I go in and clean. I am extra gentle, and I don't handle them at that time any more than is nessecary to get the job of cleaning done. Seems like I read some place that 24 hrs. is the rule, but I could be wrong. And if the snake has anything in it's digestive tract at all, it warrants some caution, so as not to cause any trauma or injury from a rodent bone or something. It's always best to restrain them as little as possible when handleing them. If they are trying to get away, I find that most snakes will slow down, and or stop if I gently cover the head with my hands for a few minutes. That way I don't have to wrestle with them, and possibly hurt them. I can usualy get them to sit quietly with me. That's the way I do it. Later,
T.
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"No tree would have branches foolish enough to argue amongst themseleves".

>>Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I always wait at least 24 hrs. after feeding before I pick up and hold any snakes. However, if I find a big pile of poop in the cage at 12 or 18 hrs. after, I will go ahead and very gently move them into a holding box while I go in and clean. I am extra gentle, and I don't handle them at that time any more than is nessecary to get the job of cleaning done. Seems like I read some place that 24 hrs. is the rule, but I could be wrong. And if the snake has anything in it's digestive tract at all, it warrants some caution, so as not to cause any trauma or injury from a rodent bone or something. It's always best to restrain them as little as possible when handleing them. If they are trying to get away, I find that most snakes will slow down, and or stop if I gently cover the head with my hands for a few minutes. That way I don't have to wrestle with them, and possibly hurt them. I can usualy get them to sit quietly with me. That's the way I do it. Later,
>>T.
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>>"No tree would have branches foolish enough to argue amongst themseleves".

24 hours is the rule. That is because after 24 hours the food item has moved past the stomach and into the intestines. Regurgitating is part of the "fight or flight" response to threats for snakes. They can't move as quickly and efficiently with a stomach full of food, so often they will regurgitate whatever is in their stomach if they feel a possible need to flee. While the food is in their stomach (the first 24 hours after eating), it is easy for them to regurgitate it. If they feel threatened or are stressed from handling too soon after feeding, they sometimes will invoke the "flight" response
and regurgitate.
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

The only snake I currently have is a BP and I realize they are quite different creatures. When feeding him I will warm a frozen rat to room temp then a bit warmer, dance him around the cage for about 10 secs and then let the prey lay in the tank about 5 inches from him. (Thanks Tigergenesis, Sslik is eating a lot better this way.) Once he takes notice, he tenses and then springs forward and clamps onto it while coiling it up.

I realize Eastern Indigos are not constrictors and likewise are not poisonous, but I assume they instinctually know how to take down a live prey should they come across one. That being said will they readily take an f/t mouse or rat just defrosted and laying in the cage, or do they need to have the whole ceremony of dancing it around the cage first to think it is alive?

Also, exactly how do Eastern Indigos kill their prey? Brute force? If so, how? Do they bite into it and cause a fatal wound? Bang it around? What?

Thanks for any information.
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0 of 3 goals complete, but all in good time.

- Eastern Indigo
- Redtail Hawk
- Neopolitan Mastiff

Indigos kill with a combination of brute force, relatively strong jaws (for a snake its size), and more enthusiasm then any snakes I've ever kept. I only have a neonate, Lenore, and she is now giving me a taste of this feeding response and I can only imagine what it's like in adults.

Eastern Indigos will clamp down with powerful jaws and thrash their prey - smacking the unfortunate animal into the ground, rocks, etc. If it's small enough, they might just overwelm is and swallow it alive. Or they might thrash until dead or disabled. They also use their heavy bodies to weigh down the prey and hold it in place. I've also heard that they old the prey down, and then pull up and twist violently with their jaws, snapping spines and even ripping animals in half.

That said, everyone I've talked to has told me that they'd never feed anything living to any indigo (except a stubborn neonate), as the process is so violent that all kinds of problems can occur in the cage (unfair to the prey and the snake).

Once you've established a neonate's eating habbits and gotten them on f/t rodents, there should be no problem feeding them. They have the strongest feeding reaction of any snake I've ever kept. Lenore, still young, still gets stressed by my presence...but it has NEVER affected her apetite (not since she started eating).
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One female Eastern Indigo. That's right, just one snake. But she's my dream-snake, so back off man.

Silly me. I wrote all that and didn't even answer the question I set out to answer. From what I've read and what I've experienced with my indigo, once you get them eating f/t rodents, they don't need any special song and dance. Their feeding response is just so strong. So strong that you in fact have to be careful when you open that cage (especially when the smell of prey is in the room). You certainly don't want to pick them up if the scent of prey on you (fish, rodents, birds).

You know...that just got me thinking. I got my neonate to start eating by scenting pinkies with tuna juice. Obviously I wouldn't want that scent on my hands when I pick her up (best rule of thumb is to just always wash you hands before and after handling)...but what about my breath? What if I just ate some fish or a tuna sanwhich. Has anyone ever heard of a Dry getting their feeding response turned on by breath?

Just a thought...
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One female Eastern Indigo. That's right, just one snake. But she's my dream-snake, so back off man.

Well, if you're only going to have a single snake, you certainly picked the one to have, but as I have mentioned before, you can't have just one! Better start pinching those pennies; you’re going to need a male soon. ;0)
Something about Drymarchon makes them quite addictive, but I’m preaching to the choir to this regard.
By the way, is your baby couperi is less then one month of age?

Jeff

I know what you mean...but for now, it's just one snake for me. She is just over two months old (hatched on July 13th).

-Josh
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One female Eastern Indigo. That's right, just one snake. But she's my dream-snake, so back off man.

Like I said, you picked a good one!
Also, she's no longer a neonate, as that pahse ende once she reached her first month. Congratulations! You have a true "baby"

Jeff