Reptile & Amphibian Forums

As I alluded to in my earlier post, I recently acquired a pair of adult, 5 year old olive pythons. The male is around 7 to 8', the female is between 11 and 12' and very massive. They just arrived yesterday. Last night, mainly out of curiosity, I placed the male with the female just to see what would happen. He immediately began to rub her in what appeared to be typical python courtship behavior. Twice, she lifted just her cloaca and secreted a bit of a slimy substance. When the male came across these puddles, he was obviously interested in them. I didn't see them lock up, but it was late when I introduced them, and went to bed and left them together. This morning I removed him back to his enclosure.

So I'm curious. The former owner of these pythons said that when he got them last year, they copulated, but the female never produced anything. He hadn't cycled them, so that could have been why (then again, they were right at the supposed "4 year old minimum" for breeding age). I obviously haven't cycled these either, but did notice yesterday while handling the female for pictures that the latter part of her body appeared slightly lumpy. If I didn't know better, just based purely on her size, I'd say she was already gravid! However, someone told me that the secretions may be evidence of her being in estrus and her way of letting the male know she is ready, as in currently or recently ovulated. So, is there any way she has ovulated without being cycled and is now ready? Or is this likely to just result in nothing? Even if nothing comes of this, I will still have time a month or more from now to go ahead and cycle them and see if that would get her ready, but if she's ready now, I certainly don't want to loose this opportunity. Of course, olive python breeding information is all but nonexistant, so I don't know how much good this post will turn up. I've already sent e-mails to Bob Clark and Dave and Tracy Barker to see if they could offer some insight. Of course, anything anyone here could offer would be invaluable as well. Looking forward to any and all replies!!
-Chance
-----
Chance Duncan
http://www.rivervalleysnakes.com

Hey Chance,

I have a pair of Olive pytnons from the Barkers that were produced in 1997. What I have been told is that Olives seem to need to be older in order to sucessfully breed and produce. My pair last year (at the ages of 6) did exactly what you are describing. It is my understanding that 7 years of age seems to be the age when breeding success is moe likely. I really wish you luck with yours as hatchlings are EXTREMELY scarce as of the past few years (since the Barkers trimmed their collections WAY down). These are my favorite python and would love to see more success in propagation in the near future!. Good luck! Derek

-----
Derek Roberts
Sonoran Reptile
sonoranreptile@earthlink.net

Hey Derek. Thanks for the reply. I got a responce back from Dave Barker and he confirmed the older age theory, saying theirs usually bred at 7 to 8 years of age. Of course, younger is possible, but older seems to be better. Therefore, I'm not going to hold my breath for this pair, but you really never know what could happen. I've been surprised before. He also told me that the absolute key thing in having a female lay a successful clutch is weight. Most olive keepers tend to overfeed their snakes. I believe mine to be slightly on the heavy side. He described a healthy weight for a female as being a slender body that is hard (muscular) to the touch, not all that soft. So, with that, I believe I'll be putting my female on a 'diet' and get her weight down. He said that fat females most often produced slugs, which is something I certainly which to avoid.

Anyway, thanks for the good words, and I wish you the best of luck as well.
-Chance
-----
Chance Duncan
http://www.rivervalleysnakes.com

Hi Chance,

well I've seen almost similar behaviour in other pythons (ball pythons, carpets and white-lipped pythons). After introducing them to their new home (male and female together), they started to copulate. This is what we (in germany) call "stress copulation", and until now, besides the mating nothing ever happend. No eggs!
But as you mentioned that the privious owner had cycled them, it could perhaps be, that you get some eggs. Age seems to fit.

So, anyway, olives are nice snakes. Enjoy them!

Cheers,
Wulf
-----
http://www.leiopython.de ,
http://www.herpers-digest.com

Hey Wulf. Thanks for the information. What you described very well could be what's happening. However, I haven't actually witnessed copulation yet anyway. I put them together again last night, and again he immediately began to court her, but she seems, for the most part, unresponsive. I'm not going to stress her with any more introductions until after they've been cycled properly and see what happens. Also, I'm hoping she will have lost a bit of weight by then, as according to Dave Barker, obesity is a big part of the problem with breeding this species. Evidently with olives, slenderness in your females is not a bad thing at all! Anyway, thanks again for that tip. It certainly does seem to apply to this situation. Like I said in my other post, I'll keep the forum updated (and tons of new pictures! lol) as things progress.
-Chance
-----
Chance Duncan
http://www.rivervalleysnakes.com