Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I read some posts below where it seems that beauties can be kept under conditions CLOSE to that of a N.American rat snake. How close? What would the hot/cool side temperature for a baby be? 75-85 also, or is this one of the slight modifications? Also, what size tank do they need to be kept in as adults? I am seriously looking into getting one...and These are my last two questions.
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

Battling ignorance one stupid person at a time.

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat(Lola)
1.0 Neonate Black Rat (het for Lic Stk's) (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds ("Bill" and "The Bride aka Beatrix Kiddo" )

Our previous discussions have borne out that Blue Beauties can be kept under conditions close to N. American ratsnakes, however it's probably better to keep them slightly cooler since Blues may come from cooler more montane regions. You should probably try to keep the average temps in the neighborhood of high 70s to low 80s with a hot spot in the mid 80s [say 85 or so]. As an adult you will need a huge cage.

I have a pair of Taiwans which get as large as Blues which means be prepared for adults that can easily top 7 feet in length and possibly even get upwards of 8 to 9 feet. They are also highly arboreal and highly active, particularly in early morning and late afternoon well into the evening [after dark]. I think anyone who keeps these snakes in something small as an adult is doing a serious disservice to the snakes since they are so highly active.

I currently keep mine in enclosures measuring 72 inches high by 29 inches wide by 29 inches deep, with numerous climbing branches and hiding/resting spots both high up in the enclosure and down on the bottom. The snakes more often than not choose to spend their time in the higher areas of the cage.
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Matt Campbell
Animal Keeper, Small Mammal/Reptile House
Lincoln Park Zoo Chicago, Illinois

Assistant Curator
Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, Illinois

Woah...so you keep yours in more of a vertical tank. Would an iguana cage maybe work well for something like that? My only concern with that is controlling the humidity in there...being all mesh.

So basically are you saying that I could build a cage with a smaller floor area, but as long as I have a good vertical area for climbing they'll be happy? Do you happen to have any pictures of your tank? I'd like to see how it's built.

Thanks,
Chris
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

Battling ignorance one stupid person at a time.

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat(Lola)
1.0 Neonate Black Rat (het for Lic Stk's) (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds ("Bill" and "The Bride aka Beatrix Kiddo" )

>>Woah...so you keep yours in more of a vertical tank. Would an iguana cage maybe work well for something like that? My only concern with that is controlling the humidity in there...being all mesh.
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I believe Matt said he had Taiwan beauty snakes. They tend to be more arboreal than the other ssps, imo. Also, an all screen cage may not hold a snake as strong as a seven foot beauty. They need some basic humidity too.

TC

Well, even though they are very active snakes, they don't nearly need the size of caging that a boid of similar size would require. And even though they will climb, mine have never really seemed to "want" to climb. From their in-cage behaviours, I would lean to them being semi cave dwelling as mine, even though active almost all day long, do spend generous portions of time in hiding spots, even when given perches or climbing branches.

I keep nearly all of mine at 75-80 degrees farenheit, which is room temperature for me. The only exception, like I posted below, are my adults that get a small lamp to provide temperature flucuations and photocycling during breeding season.

I think I'm just going to copy this and post it next time this comes up...lol I'll also be trying to get some good pictures of my adults and or juvies so that some of you else can see them.
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Conrad
Too Fast Reptiles
www.toofastreptiles.bravehost.com

Terry is right, I have Taiwans, not Blues. I can't really say if the Blues are as arboreal as the Taiwans, but a guy in my herp society has a Blue and though he keeps it in a much smaller cage than I keep my Taiwans in, he's given it climbing branches and he says it's shown a marked preference for the elevated perches. I think a lot of keepers tend to keep most snakes colubrid or python in a kind of 'stock' layout which tends to be this rectangle laid on it's side.

Knowing that Taiwans tend to be large and highly active snakes, I chose to go for the vertical set up. This was also because the breeder I got them from said that they were more arboreal. I think this can be extrapolated to the other Beauty snakes because if you look at all of them they have very long tails. Their tails are longer in fact than many other ratsnake species and if you watch them moving through an arboreal set up you'll see just how almost prehensile those tails are.

Taking all that into account, I set up my cages with a variety of vertical climbing options with suspended hide spots and perches. The mesh cages have not been the best setup. They do tend to lose humidity and also they are more difficult to heat.

After a couple years of using this setup I've decided the shortcomings are too much to overcome so I'm going to make new cages with the same vertical orientation but solid sides and front. Since it will be such a large cage I will however incorporate very large ventilation panels into the sides as well.

I think when it comes to housing Beauties since they can be largish snakes, particularly the Taiwans and the Blues you can certainly try something a little different. There are some keepers I've seen who keep them in more horizontal instead of vertical setups and they seem to do okay. However, I am big into naturalistic setups [especially working at a zoo], so I would advocate giving as much space as feasible to an active snake, particularly a big one.
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Matt Campbell
Animal Keeper, Small Mammal/Reptile House
Lincoln Park Zoo Chicago, Illinois

Assistant Curator
Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, Illinois

Matt, thanks for the post. That's a very interesting account. Because of my limited space, I need smaller cages, and have chosen a system using ten gal. tanks. That's why I picked the smallest ssp. of taeniura to work with, t. taeniura. Still my largest one needs a larger tank. I do put lots of things in the tanks for them in the form of water jugs, hides, and paper forms, etc. They tend to hide most of the time, but when active use the entire cage. I don't see them too much, 'cus they're active at night and a little in the mornings. Your post opens my eyes, however, and I may try a more vertical cage setup and see what happens. Gotta run....TC.

I never would have even thought of using a vertical tank. The one i'm hopefully getting is only 14 inches and I think it will be fine in this 10 gallon for now...then once I get my big tank setup built for my black rats it'll go into a 29 gallon, then eventually i'll build a vertical cage. Thanks!
-Chris
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin

Battling ignorance one stupid person at a time.

Current snakes:
0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat(Lola)
1.0 Neonate Black Rat (het for Lic Stk's) (Frankie)
1.1 Texas Bairds (Jose and Rosa)