Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've recently seen some ads advertising some reduced balls for sale. The price was from $350 (slightly reduced) to approx $1,200!!! Wow! Why so much $$$? Are people out there getting a bit greedy, or is there some unknown trait within these reduced patterns that we are all unaware of! LoL! The ones I've seen look a bit reduced, but not substantial enough to ask for that kinda mullah. Just my opinion...But what do you all think about this matter???

P.S. Geez...maybe I should sell mine for that kinda cash? J/K

-----
1.0 02' Surinam Redtail "Vegas"
0.1 03' Normal BP "Kamaria"
0.1 04' High Yellow Reduced BP "Kanoni"
1.1 03' & 04' 100% Het Albino BP "Cosmo" & "Kalos"
0.1 Tuxedo Cat "Nickie"
0.1 Rescued Mouse
1.0 Betta "Pearl"

"The best place to find a helping hand is at the end of your own arm." unknown

Maybe you should....

.........all hype usually.......

and alot are make believe reduced that were gotten froma $3 to $15 each pile of wild/captive/farm raised stuff......

yep........

even if they were proven a genetic /kinda/sorta reduced......

they aren't worth that much cash..........I agree.....

normal is a normal.......yes ...they may be worth a little more...like $100.....150.......for females.....but only if captive born in the USA.....

my opinion too........

.....so.....send me yours if female..I'll give you ....aaa....let's see....$50........OK?..........

my 3 cents....anyways..............JY
-----
.....wow....you people....really.....you are exactly like I thought.........

............right?

......................................................

Genetics. Many have wild animals that look to be a bit banded or reduced in nature but when bred to try and prove it out, they just don't produce like looking animals. The strain I have is by no means "HYPE" it is indeed genetic, and I as well as several others took the time to produce animals that will breed true and produce animals like the one pictured time and time again. Worth a bit more to you to produce nicer looking animals? Sure was to me.. Hope this helps you answer your question.

the price of these reduced patterns I have seen up to $4000.00 which is flat out stupid just because someone proved that that particular ball is 100% reduced ---I have worked with the importing of balls (thousands and thousands) I'm going to tell you reduced patterns and genetic granites are a dime a dozen no joke ----some one who pays that kind of cash for those animals has to much money on ther hands ---with granites there are a few traits to look for to make sure your getting a better chance of a genetic granite but even those come in in numerous amounts --for these mutations dont get ripped off-because It's gnetic genetic genetic! it is all a scheme to get crazy money for snakes that are pretty common if you know where to shop for them--you'll see if you breed two reduced imports your going to get reduced babies --it's a simple gene like breeding leopard geckos --you get one that has a little orange on the tail and a mate with a little orange on the tail and holy crap your babies have orange on there tail even though they aren't a specific morph or of a specific bloodline (hint the sarcasm)

Finally, someone who actually tells the truth. Like Jyohe says, "it's all genetic". I see alot of very nice reduced pattern Balls, and they are worth the same (maybe a little more) as a normal, but get them in the wrong hands and somehow they become thousands of dollars....LOL..DUH people
-----
Chad Bachman

Is this the reason blackbacks are higher than normals ?
Because someone might think they are the co-doms that are "het for red axanthic" ?
Or do you think its just me thinking they are complete normals ?
-----
3.12 Ball Pythons
0.1 Viper Boa
----------------------------------------------------------
Looking for 0.2 Phelsuma madagascariensis madagascariensis

I don't think they are being mistaken for het red axanthics, but it's something different and people like the different look, so they will pay more $$ for them. This is fine, and blackbacks are usually in the couple hundred dollar range, wich isn't unrealistic. I guess people can ask whatever they want to for their animals, and if people buy them, well, good for them.
-----
Chad Bachman

Well if they are a dime a dozen I can spare at least a $1.00 so please do send me 120 reduced pattern animals! What a joke. I am amazed at the hostility over something that several of you seem to feel you know all about. The fact remains that if Ralph Davis, Corey Woods, VPI, NERD or andyone else produces an animal that they GUARANTEE will produce like looking animals they can and should sell them for whatever the market will bear. That is why so many of us within the hobby turn to these people when we want to buy something, as we know full well they back what they sell. It matters not that someone doesn't like a particular mutation or for that matter what mutation we are all refering to. Reduced, yellow belly, cinnamon, pastel, albino, spider, pied and more were all at one time a new or unproven gene. Do all of us us in the hobby need to like every mutation? Certainly not, but to dismiss one as less then because you don't like it or are unable to afford one is asinine. On a side note what I do for a living and the animals I keep has no bearing to my opinion stated here. I mention this only because others seem to like to tell people what they do in there post.(I import this, I breed that, etc.)

draconian and JY are right on the money with this. All patterns are "genetic" and not necessarily a recessive type of gene.

Just like blue eyes.....blonde hair.......
.....tall........short.....fat....skinny.

We're not talking about genetics such as albinism, axanthism, ect. If you breed a banded ball to a banded ball, guess what......you get banded balls. If you breed a banded ball to an "alien" ball, guess what......you'll probably get a mix of the two and some in between.

IMO, $5000 for a "reduced pattern" or a "black back" is asinine regardless of who is breeding it and selling it.

Give credit where credit is due.......but be real.

These so called banded/tiger/whatever balls come from an area in the region of Tongo if my memory serves me correctly. Just another variation in an already extremely variable animal.

Peace
Brandon Osborne

Your thoughts on patten confuse me a bit. In your post you state that if you breed two banded animals together you get banded offspring. There are several cases of this just not being the case. In one example Corey Woods line is recessive, and Ralph Davis strain is dominant. While true that if you breed a pair expressed animals from the same strain together you get like looking offspring the same is true of any other pattern based mutation. That said if you don't want to spend 5k or even $5.00 for an animal that is up to you, but again there are others that have and do like the looks of reduced pastels, albinos etc. and are willing to pay more to produce them. To somehow dismiss the hard work of breeders who have taken the time to raise groups of animals up and prove the genetics of one pattern or another is just lost on me. Case in point striped animals. You can buy striped c.h. babies all day long. Are they the same as genetic stripes being sold for 20k? At one time they were all nothing more then an unproven gene. Bob took the time to set up and prove out his founding animal. He should be able to set the price for the time and work involved in proving out a strain. If you don't like it don't buy it but please don't insult those of us who do.

Your thoughts on patten confuse me a bit. In your post you state that if you breed two banded animals together you get banded offspring. There are several cases of this just not being the case. In one example Corey Woods line is recessive, and Ralph Davis strain is dominant. While true that if you breed a pair expressed animals from the same strain together you get like looking offspring the same is true of any other pattern based mutation. That said if you don't want to spend 5k or even $5.00 for an animal that is up to you, but again there are others that have and do like the looks of reduced pastels, albinos etc. and are willing to pay more to produce them. To somehow dismiss the hard work of breeders who have taken the time to raise groups of animals up and prove the genetics of one pattern or another is just lost on me. Case in point striped animals. You can buy striped c.h. babies all day long. Are they the same as genetic stripes being sold for 20k? At one time they were all nothing more then an unproven gene. Bob took the time to set up and prove out his founding animal. He should be able to set the price for the time and work involved in proving out a strain. If you don't like it don't buy it but please don't insult those of us who do.

Again, I never dismissed anyone's dedication or work. What some of the breeders have done is great, but a normal is a normal is a normal, whether it's a black back, reduce pattern, or banded. Like it or not, they are normals. The recessive stripe is a totally different story, and you can easily see that from looking at the recessive stripes. If the animals are het for something, then there's good reason for "asking price". But like I said, normals are normals. It's not that I don't like them, it's that they are normals for several $K. Buy them and breed them....then sell them. Again, no offense to anyone. This is just my opinion.

Brandon Osborne

Hello again. When you refer to another breeders projects as "not being worth the money" or that they are just "normals" you disregard the work and time they put into the production of that strain of animal. Along this same thought do you honestly feel that NERD, Ralph, Woods, Snakekeeper and the dozens of others who work with and sell this strain of quote "normals" (reduced) are all out to deceive the public? All of them have reduced strains for sale at a far greater then a typical animal market price. I ask as I feel it is important for people to call it as they see it and by calling them normal animals that is exactly what you are doing. So which is it? Are all of the above breeders liars, selling normals to whoever will pony up the money? Or is there more to this strain? Please to all who read in this very public forum let us all know how you feel about these breeders and there practices in this topic of selling "normal" reduced animals at a premium.

Hello again. When you refer to another breeders projects as "not being worth the money" or that they are just "normals" you disregard the work and time they put into the production of that strain of animal. Along this same thought do you honestly feel that NERD, Ralph, Woods, Snakekeeper and the dozens of others who work with and sell this strain of quote "normals" (reduced) are all out to deceive the public? All of them have reduced strains for sale at a far greater then a typical animal market price. I ask as I feel it is important for people to call it as they see it and by calling them normal animals that is exactly what you are doing. So which is it? Are all of the above breeders liars, selling normals to whoever will pony up the money? Or is there more to this strain? Please to all who read in this very public forum let us all know how you feel about these breeders and there practices in this topic of selling "normal" reduced animals at a premium.

I think you're trying to put words in my mouth.lol. I never said they didn't work hard at what they do. I gave them much credit for some of the spectacular ball morphs we have today. I just said, reduced, banded, tiger, black back, whatever......are all normals. Variations of normal ball pythons. Anyone who has been around long enough to see all of the imports coming in every year will find all of these animals by the HUNDREDS. I never called anyone a liar. If someone is willing to pay the money they ask, then more power to them. I'll personally hand pick some just as nice for $10 ea.lol. As far as them not being worth the money, I stated that as my opinion. With the boom of the ball market over the last 5 years, people will find a new morph every day. lol. I'm not saying they should sell these for $25, but come'on....$5000 ea.? I think I'd buy a pied or a couple of albinos over the black back or bandeds. Again, this is just my opinion. I commend all of the breeders who devote their lives and efforts to producing some of the best LIVING ART on earth.

Peace.
Brandon Osborne

Thanks for clearing up what you meant to say. It is sometimes hard via the internet to come across to another in a way that is clear for everyone. I too think that 5k is steep, but I also feel they are worth more then the "typical" $25.00 animal. Pieds might be nice..LOL.

I agree with the pieds @ 5K. I just thought that it was a bit unreasonable to buy a pattern variation (reduced) for such a large amount of money. Although I did buy mine for a bit more than a normal, though she is a very crisp gold/yellow color (which, yes I know unfortunatly will fade over time). I just think people will sell anything that anyone will buy at the price offered. Also, people should do research on price, genetics and availability before they purchase anything...but this should be left unsaid with any purchase. Reduced patterns are eye candy though! Everyone who replied, there was some great insights and opinions, thank you =)
-----
1.0 02' Surinam Redtail "Vegas"
0.1 03' Normal BP "Kamaria"
0.1 04' High Yellow Reduced BP "Kanoni"
1.1 03' & 04' 100% Het Albino BP "Cosmo" & "Kalos"
0.1 Tuxedo Cat "Nickie"
0.1 Rescued Mouse
1.0 Betta "Pearl"

"The best place to find a helping hand is at the end of your own arm." unknown