Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I took in two baby bearded dragons from my work, a herp specialty store, because they were not looking very well. I have had one of them for 2 weeks almost, the other one who came home with him died 3 days in, and I took another 2 days ago. They both look horrible. They are thin and lethargic. i have taken them to the vet and they have no parasites or impactions. At work they were kept in a back room with an ambient temp of 90. They were kept in 122qt sterlite tubs with brown paper bag on the bottom, the cleaned grape vine stuff to climb on and a SMALL VERY shallow water bowl. They have mercury vapor, solar brite, bulbs suspended from the ceiling by metal arms that keep the lights 1 1/2 ft from the top of the tub. At home I have them in that SAME thing. Everything is the same even the ambient air temp. At home though i am giving them reptile smoothie, what my vet called it. Which contains beef baby food, pediatlite and mealworms. They have been offered live food but don't appear to ahve enough enery to chase it. They also get soaked in warm water once a day for 45 min.

I would really like these guys to make it. I am upset enough at my self that the one died. i don't mean to be rude, but if you only have adult animals and have never delt with babies, please do not post a reply. I REALLY don't mean to be rude, but I find there is a HUGE diffrence between and adult and a TINY baby. I also relize they might just be beyond saving. Any ideas that or ticks that you have used in the past to help these little guys would be GREATLY appreciated.

Amanda
1.0 Ball Python
0.1 Albino Burm
0.0.2 Green Tree Frogs
0.6 Leopard Geckos
3.0 Iguana
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink
0.0.2 Baby Beardies

I wrote this and then went to look at them and one had passed away. I hope I don't lose the other one.

Here are a few ideas that masy or may not be usefull..... Light intensity sometimes will help them become more active and I didn't hear you mention that there was any flourescent lighting. I would add a double bulb fixture over the enclosure. Yu can pick one up and bulbs for less than 20 bucks at Wally world. Also I didn't see you mention a basking spot. tiny babies need a basking area from 110 to 115 degrees at one end of the cage with an ambient temp of around 85. In my opinion a 45 minute soak is quite a bit too long. By the time they come out of the water the water temp has become too cold unless you are "warming"it up every so often. I would cut that back to around 10 to 15 minutes tops and go twice a day if you want. Also, I didn't see you mention any supplements. Are you using a calcium powder and vitamin suppliment? I would try mixing into your smoothie a little herptivite twice a week and calcium powder once a day. Not too much just a little as you don't want to overdo it. When you lost the one what were some of the symtpoms it was showing? Hope this will help some.
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Robert Wood
Tulsa,OK

They have a mercury vapor bulb which has uvb and heat in the same bulb. The basking temp is staying about 105. I am testing that with a temp gun. They are getting the calcium supplement you mentioned in their smoothie. Also, the bath they are soaking in has a heat light centered about 2 feet over it. The water stays warm the whole time they are in it.

The two that I lost were EXTREMELY lethargic and were having to ahve the smoothie fed to them 5 times a day. They would not even look up at any moving prey items. They were also thin.

Thank you for your help.

I know you said you did not want to hear from anyone
that has only delt with adults.
But I am on a couple of lists.
And babys are talked about all the time.
And one thing that they said was NO mealworms.
They are high in chitin. Which can cause impactions.
Even in adult dragons.

Small crickets would be better.

The referal website:
www.reptilerooms.com
And the group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pogona/

Several helpful breeders there.
Radena

Well, thnak you for your comments, but I am using MICRO baby mealworms that are VERY VERY soft. They won't eat them anyway and they won't eat crickets either. Not even if I hold them wiggiling in front of them.

I second cutting mealworms out totally. The minimealworms are not any better then the small ones, and the one company that produces them that I have talked to hadn't had ANY tests done to back up the OUTRAGEUOS claims they were making. Bottom line is mealworms are never going to be better then crickets or silkworms, and they can be dangerous.

I suggest switching your solution to this:
Juvi RepCal Pellets soaked in Pedialyte (baby gatoraid) for hydration

CHICKEN baby food, (the bottles I have looked at are lower in vit A for some reason).

Cooked sweet potato (microwave it until soft)
add a pinch of calcium with D3. Do NOT use a calcium with vitamins mixed in. Do not use more then a pich of calcium per 1/2 cup.
Put this all in the food processor until it can be syringe fed.

Beef baby food is not going to even come close to providing a dragon with what it needs. Add the repcal pellets for a balanced diet. Sick dragons need nutritious food, and baby food doesn't do it.

Soak them for no more then 10 minutes.
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Ok, i am not BUYING mealworms, I am breeding them my self and I am SQUISHING them my self into a snake like thing that contains baby food and pedialyte. These baby dragons are NOT eating live prey. I feel more comfortable using the baby food at the moment cause I knwo FOR SURE what is in them.

Unlike the human food world, the reptile food you buy does not have any regulation on it as to listing of ingredients. While I am sure that rep-cal would NEVER leave any ingredients out to sell more product, I feel better knowing what they are eating. I guess this comes from having 3 iguanas. I am not feeding gerber baby food either or anything like that. I have been purchasing the food from an organic store in my town that makes it everyweek with no preservatives. I appreciate everyones concern about the mealworms, but I assure you what I am using is fine if I could just get them to eat it.

Also, crickets are not an awesome meal chocie. No matter WHERE you get crickets there is ALWAYS a possibility that they carry pin worms. It is a cricket thing. Mealworms can be sanitarily lab grown, or grown at home under your own supervision and not contain pin worms. I am a minor in entemology and have had MANY talks with my universitys Insect zoo about this. You can disagree, but as of now I try when ever possible not to feed crickets. I do feed mealworms, butterworms, silkworms and wax worms to my leopard geckos and BTS.

I really do not mean to start an argument, but those are my thoughts. Sorry if you don't belive the same.

that is supposed to say shake like thing, not snake, sorry.

I've been using repcal pellets slury for several years, with rescues and hatchlings that need a boost and have had great results with it. It already contains calcium and other esential nutrients that are awesome for dragons....

I mix the juvie pellets with pedialyte, add some silk worms and blend well to a slury....I give as often as I can during the day.....

I would also give some acidophilus daily to help stimulate their appetite....
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Tracey
Tracey's Beardies
www.beardiecrazy.com
"Whining is not only graceless, but can be dangerous.
It can alert a brute that a victim is in the neighborhood" ~Maya Angelou

Rather then start an argument on the forum, you were contacted privately, there's nothing wrong with that , IMO.
Suggestions were more light intensity, Rep Cal slurry and more heat. All very good suggestons.
It sounds like you are doing your best and these suggestions are about all that is left.
Were these babies from the same clutch? I'm asking because they could have some illness or disease that you may not be aware of, which would explain their illness.
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www.classylizard.com

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Signature file edited; oversized banner removed. Please update/correct. [phw 9/2/04]

Yes, the babies that are dying were all from the same clutch.

The problem has been resovled as to why the babies were dying this morning anyway. I called the bredder and asked him if he had ever had an adult dragon with adeno virus, and sure enough, after I begged someone to do tests on the two babt dragons that I had die, htey have the adenovirus.

Thanks for the suggestions, I am sorry that I offended the forum. There is nothing I can do for the last baby dragon.

Amanda

>>Yes, the babies that are dying were all from the same clutch.
>>
>>The problem has been resovled as to why the babies were dying this morning anyway. I called the bredder and asked him if he had ever had an adult dragon with adeno virus, and sure enough, after I begged someone to do tests on the two babt dragons that I had die, htey have the adenovirus.
>>
>>Thanks for the suggestions, I am sorry that I offended the forum. There is nothing I can do for the last baby dragon.
>>
>>Amanda

Can I ask who did the adeno testing for you? Would be great to know for future use.

Thanks,
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Robert Wood
Tulsa,OK

Kansas State University Vetrinary School. They are a research school, so they did it for me. Dr.Lock there kept the body though cause he would like to make sure there was nothing else and should be getting back to me later today.

What is going to happen to the 15 other babies that I believe I have read are in a PET STORE for sale and most certainly infected with ADENOVIRUS? Have babies already been sold from these adults? Are these adults bred often? Have other clutches been sold? What about the other reptiles that are exposed to the infected animals?
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Signature file edited; oversized banner removed. Please update/correct. [phw 9/6/04]