Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi guys, I have a setup measuring 40cm x 40cm. I am new to keeping frogs so any help would be fantastic. Below is a photo of a glass tank which I decorated for fun, but liked the idea of keeping frogs in it. Which Poison frog species would go well in it?
Here is a list of species I had in mind:
Leucomelas (Spotted)
Pumilio (Red)
Fantasticus
Reticulatus
Tinctorius
Azureus

Also if there is anything else that needs adding please let me know. Obviously I intend to add some UV light.

Tank looks good, a couple questions though. Does it have a false floor so water can collect at the bottom of the tank? Also what are the humidity levels? Darts like it pretty moist so daily misting is required that is why you would want the false bottom. Or else the water just biulds up and floods the tank. As far as the species of frogs if my conversion is correct the tank is only 15"x15"? If that is the case then thumbnail frogs would be the only way to go. I would maybe think of going with mantellas or something like that. They are cheaper and seem to do better in small vivs. Hope that helps.
Josh

Hi, thanks for replying.
No I dont have a false bottom, are they easy to make?
The enclosure is pretty small so mantella do seem a good choice, thanks. What do you recommend a good size for keeping Dendrobates then? and how many could I keep per enclosure?

The false bottoms are not too difficult to make you just have to start out with nothing on the bottom of the tank. Then you take recess lighting grid from home depot and then cut it to size. The second step is wrap plastic screen around it and secure it to the lighting grid with plastic zip ties. Then go and by PVC endcaps and place them on the bare bottom of the tank and then place the recess lighting grid on top of the endcaps, creating your false floor. Some people even will notch out a spot for a piece of PVC in the corner so then you can syphon out the excess water. It works well if you do it that way. As far as tank size for darts. I would start out with a 20gal nothing smaller. But for thumbnail darts you could use something smaller. I mean some people will disagree but I like to get the bigger the better for darts. Then you can load the tank with live plants and moss and make it look great. The number of darts will just depend on the species. Some you can house together others are very territorial, so just depends. I will try and post some pics of what a false floor looks like so you can get a better idea. See ya,
Josh

Either fantasticus or reticulatus would do well in this if you add a couple of small Neoregalia type bromeliads to the background and remove the Spanish Moss. Just use grow-lite type lights for the plants. Darts don't require UV and a UV light source may be detrimental to them. I don't know about mantellas, however. I just acquired a new reference on amphibian physiology, but haven't delved into the UV aspects yet. I'll report back when I can cite some studies and and referrences. Some frogs do require a UV light source for calcium utilization, but darts are kept without it quite successfully.

Although I've never had trouble with the Spanish moss personally, I removed it from most of my tanks after reading a couple of reports of frogs becoming entangled in it with subsequent injuries. It's pretty wiry and can wrap around legs, etc.

In my experience, the other frogs you mention as alternatives either require more ground space (although all will do some climbing) or in the case of pumilios, need more bromeliads that hold water, as these are essential to their comfort. Pumilios, at least my Bastimentos types also utilize the ground area more than any other of my thumbnails, and are best kept in pairs, especially in such a small tank, because they are very territorial. I have each pair in a 30 gallon tall and they use every bit of it.

That's a very attractive terrarium, though. You should have no trouble adapting it. If you already have a good gravel drainage area, you can sump this out regularly with a length of aquarium airline tubing to keep the soil from becoming saturated and stagnant. However, false bottoms are best for waterfalls and in-tank water features. These are best incorportated into the original design.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

some of the frogs that you wanted to put in your tank are not frogs for a beginner.
pumilio,retic to name two. go for a beginner type frog. the leuc would be nice plus as the male gets older it will chirp for you.
you don't need a false bottom. just some sort of gravel type stuff, like leca type which does the job but is light. also i don't know how well the spanish moss would grow. it is an air plant and doesn't do well in a humid type tank. plus i also have read that a frog could get tangled in it.
hope some of this has helped you. just go to the variuos sites out there.

That's true. For a beginner frog, pumilios and retics aren't it, and fantasticus definitely need some experience. It isn't that they are ultimately more difficult to keep, but they are more sensitive to any errors you may make, and it's hell on everyone if you lose your first frogs. But a pretty nice beginner thumbnail that might be suitable for your tank (again, with bromeliads added,) might be a pair of D. imitator. These are generally rather bold, fun frogs that breed at 5 months. They can put on a great show. Even then, I'd rather see them in a larger tank. They're pretty athletic.

In the two dart terrariums I have allowed the Spanish moss to still grow, the moss is doing fine, but I have it at the top or in an area that dries out faster after misting. As long as water from falls doesn't splash upon it, the high humidity alone doesn't seem to affect it. The other glaucous (those with whitish fluff on the leaves) tillandsias in my set-ups also do well only in the upper reaches where they are not constantly wet. I'm still not sure how much danger there is of entanglement, only read where it occurred a couple of times. One group of my imitators have lived with some orchids in osmunda fiber (and nothing could be more wiry than that) without getting entangled in it for several years.

I did more research on the UV and darts. Everything I read is emperical, not scientifically explained, but darts don't need UV to prosper, so don't use it. They do come from dense rainforests, where they get very little UV, so have other methods of obtaining D3 for calcium metabolism.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

Hello,
Thanks for all the very useful information. I gave up on the false bottom description as I dont live in the USA so I dont know what alot of that stuff is. Does anyone have a photo of a false bottom tank?
I think I will leave this setup and get a bigger setup. Perhaps 40cm high and deep and 60cm long? Would that be better? I quite fancy the leucos so I will go for them.
How noisy are they too, as they will be in my bedroom? I dont mind it if they are noisy during the day, but at night I need silence lol especially after hearing they are worse than crickets