Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is the crowned morph a big deal? Is someone trying to develop a dumbo morph or something? This is female has the largest crests of any that I own Crown or cool?

well, the only confirmed 'crown' ive seen was from the rhac book. the folds at the end of the head were so big they drooped. while your gecko there definitely falls under the 'cool' category in my book, i cant tell you for sure if thats considered crown or not. i've seen a few lately that seem as though their crests extend a bit from the head, but none exaggerated nearly as much as the one in the book.

According to the Rhac book by de Vosjoli, Repashy and Fast, this is how head structure is defined...

If the length of the gecko's head measures 1.3 times (or less) the width, it's considered to have the "Crowned" trait.

On the other hand, if the length of the head measures 1.5 times (or more) that of the width, it's considered a "reverting" Crested Gecko...which is, according to the book, undesireable.

Going by what the book says, I would assume that the average Crested Gecko's head length would measure between 1.31 and 1.49 times it's width...with reverted or Crowned being the terms to describe those that fall outside the norm.
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Anthony Caponetto
www.ACreptiles.com

Interesting!?

So after some not so precise measuring I come up with a totaly scientific guesstamation that this geckos head is 1.3333% longer than it is wide. That would make it a close but no cigar on the crowned trait. How recessive is the gene for crest size? Is it worth forsaking color to selectivly breed for it?
Thanks for the information!

You ask if its worth foresaking color to breed for it .

Actually the only person whom could answer that is you .

Some people just want a pet gecko.. those people may not care a bit about color , crown, giant or hair .
A great many people are interested in breeding cresteds the question becomes why ?
If its just to see eggs then hatchlings no selectivity is needed.
If its to make money I think Anthony and others are right buy the best colors and patterns and breed them ..why have the same amount of work ,space and effort to raise babies worth lesss?
If its for your pleasure choose the traits you like and work towards them.Technically crowns and giants are rare and more valuable.ut its doubtful they are as desirable as bright orange or red to the average customer.

Thank You for the response very well put.

I would keep them if they only came in one color but, I breed them because I am always amazed by the variation of the patterns and colors that any given pair can produce.

That being said my interpetation of the description of an "undesirable" or "reverted" gecko is that those with a longer or more narrow head are geneticly inferior. That would lead me to opinion the opposite is true of those with wider heads or larger crests. So the questions I had is - Does anyone selectively breed to maintain what is implied to be a superior gene pool with desirable body structure? What are the long term affects of only breeding for color and pattern?

I may be misunderstanding the implications the book is making about body structure. Things that make me go Hmmmmm?
Thank You for your patience

To me, I keep only what I like...brightly colored crested geckos with neat, intricate patterns, etc. If they weren't desirable, I would still breed them, but on a much smaller scale. On the other hand, I'd never breed something that I truly dislike, just because it's desirable or worth money. There are far too many other herps out there to work with something that you don't like. Fortunately for me, other people also like what I like.

I do have some geckos with a little less color or pattern than I would normally settle for, simply because I like their body structure. That said, I'm not happy with them only having good body structure or head width. My goal is to produce the ultimate Crested Gecko, bar none. I want the whole enchilada, I guess you could say. With that in mind, I pair my geckos up with the intention of eventually ending up with the best of both worlds. I know very few people are as concerned with structure as they are with color, but I appreciate a Crested Gecko with good structure, so it's something that I tend to strive for. Eventually, I think poeple will look for it, so it doesn't bother me to go out of my way for something that not everyone appreciates at the moment. When they start seeing Crested Geckos that nearly resemble Rhacodactylus sarasinorum in structure, I'm sure they'll start to feel the same way I do.

From what I've seen, the crowned trait seems to show up on geckos that also have a somewhat stocky build, which I also tend to like.

Here's a good example of a 3-4 month old Crested who has great color and also turned out to officially have the Crowned trait.

Selective breeding only for color, only for pattern or only for structure can be done, but when the offspring start exhibiting weaknesses in certain areas such as body structure, then I believe it's time that you outcross them to a bloodline that's known to be very strong in whatever area that you're seeing problems in...and preferably a line that still has all the other qualities that you were initially breeding them for.

For example, I have some adult females with outstanding color, but their head width is only average. Because of that, I do not breed them to males with similarly "average" structure, simply because I don't want to ever produce "reverting" babies or babies that have the potential to one day produce "reverting" babies themselves. From there, I hold back babies with the best color and structure...therefore selectively breeding for both.

I know this post is probably a big, confusing mess, but if it's something you're really interested in, I think it will help.

-Anthony
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Anthony Caponetto
www.ACreptiles.com

Not to big , confusing or a mess. I truly appreciate your feed back. I have purchased cresteds that are very slender in build and while the seller said they were unrelated I would not pair them. Even though the potential to produce nice red offspring was there I felt the body shape was a sign of inbreeding going to far. The only basis for that decision was that I didnt "like" the body structure not any factual data. Maybe I'm trying justify my choice. I like them short, fat with lots of crests
Thank You!!

P.S. Love the one in the picture!

It's just a trait like nose size on a human, for example. There's no ON or OFF. Just like with humans, babies have a propensity to look like their parents.

>>Interesting!?
>>
>> So after some not so precise measuring I come up with a totaly scientific guesstamation that this geckos head is 1.3333% longer than it is wide. That would make it a close but no cigar on the crowned trait. How recessive is the gene for crest size? Is it worth forsaking color to selectivly breed for it?
>> Thanks for the information!
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Anthony Caponetto
www.ACreptiles.com