Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I got two different groups of corn snakes from my first clutch of eggs. The mother is a Ghost, and the father a very beautiful okeetee. I don't know either parent's background at all.

Here are pictures:

I've had a few of each shed, and the albinos got a little darker and the other one that I REALLY can't figure out seemed to lighten up a tad and lose a bit of the red coloration.

The strange thing about the darker one is that there is only a very very very light hint of brown in the center of the dark patches (they are otherwise visibly black) and there are light orange spots between patches.

Anyone have any idea?

The babies are amelanistics and normals.

This tells you that both of the parents are het amelanistic.
-----
alstiver@hotmail.com

3.3 adult cornsnakes
1.4.8 baby cornsnakes
8 cornsnake eggs

Well, both parents are obviously het for amelanism. However, depending upon the size of the clutch, you may also be able to reasonably conclude that your male is NOT het for anery or hypo, at least not the form of hypo carried by your ghost female.

The babies, however, are all 100% het for anery and hypo, and the normals are also 50% possible hets for amelanism as well. Breeding them back and forth to each other can get you:

Normals
Aneries
Amels
Hypos
Snows
Ghosts
Hypo Amels (whatever that may or may not entail!)
and Coral snows

Of course there may also be other unknown hets floating around in there, but that can only lead to other surprises down the road. That's why breeding corns can be so fun (and perplexing).

Hope that helps a bit...
-----
Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

So the strong white outlines aren't reverse okeetee?

I need a general idea of how much I should try selling these for, too, if anyone knows

Well, I'm probably the wrong person to ask that question, since I really, really, REALLY dislike the idea of using a locailty name to describe a phase based merely on appearances. I actually came up with the idea of calling Okeetee phase animals "lookatees" and Okeetee locaility animals "Hunt Club corns" just so there would not be the confusion that now exists in the minds of many people. But I digress ...

The usage of the name "reverse okeetee" (whether I like it or not) is still one that is purely subjective. It is generally accepted that an animal with wide white borders, deep red saddles, and bright orange background is a "reverse okeetee." However, how wide is "wide"? How deep is "deep red"? How bright is "bright orange"? Once the name is based upon a purely subjective quality such as appearance (as opposed to a definitively identified gene), the name quickly begins to have no meaning beyond a common consensus, and how often can we have a common consensus on each individual animal offered for sale? It's a problem that we often overlook merely because generalities are what they are, and there are no easy fixes due to the wide usages of the terms in question.

So, what I guess I'm saying is this: You call it a reverse okeetee, if that is what you think it is. No one will think less of you for doing so, but not everyone will agree with your assessment. Some will object to the use of a locality term in connection with a snake with no locality background. Others will differ with you concerning whether your snake meets the "definition" of reverse okeetee. Some will say, "Wow! That's the best reverse okeetee I've ever seen!" Because the term is so broad in its usage, the reactions to it will be as varied as the population that views your animals.

For me, I'd call it an amel, and just let everyone else see what they want to see in it. That way no one is disappointed.

Good luck with them!
-----
Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

It also might be worth waiting for a few sheds before you make up your mind what to call them (if you're keeping them that long) because Amels seem to change rapidly. For example, there was an interesting photo posted here recently of an amazing hatchling that looked like it was going to be white with small orange blotches. After just one shed, the background orange really started to come through.