Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just one of the many reasons that we as exotic pet owners need to be responsible with our pets. These people are keeping track of our mistakes.

www.api4animals.org/321.htm
www.api4animals.org/380.htm
-----
Jared Douglas

You can really tell they are educated, just look how everything that is believed to be venomous is a "poisonous" snake. Kind of sad people want to take the rights of everyone away.. Someone needs to try and take away the rights of dog ownership and see how well that flies..

Here is an interesting link full of facts regarding dog bites.
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/ and here are the statistics on them http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html quite interesting reads.. Sorry this goes off target a bit, but this information is good to have to combat the attempt of uneducated legislation of reptile ownership. (nice to have a comparison to the "accepted" pets)
-----
Randall L Turner Jr.
www.aircapitalconstrictors.com

Hm.. statistics of people's pet snakes attacking humans... I see NO statistics on this site regarding people getting attacked or injured by "domestic" animals. I would imagine that the amount of people who get bitten by dogs, fall off horses, or contract rabies from cats would FAR exceed the amount of persons injured by nonvenomous captive snakes. How one-sided.
-----
2.1 Ball pythons: Goblin, Ashes, and Bela
1.0 Boa Constrictor Imperator: Apache Fog
0.1 albino Cranwell's horned frog: Bene
1.0 Tiger salamander: Slasher
1.0 black kittycat, Inky
A bunch of Oscar cichlids, one giant pleco, huge breeding lot of "fancy" (read: deformed) goldfish, and me an' the boyfriend.

I had the same reaction to that site as you did. The reality is that 1.2 million people attacked by dogs/year, and at least 700,000 had to seek medical attention. That website uses the word of "several" or "reported" when tallying reptile attacks. I wish they could see how jejune there argument really is. They say they are protecting wildlife, but i really want to know is who is going to sustain breedable populations of these animals after their native habitat as been turned into coffee plantations, so these so called animal rights activists can have a double shot mocha expresso. F*CK THEM!

-Matt

Funny no numbers on domestic attacts, also they support primate sanctuary. Funny they want to pick and choose who is capable of keeping animals as pets.

Sad thing is did you see the form letter links on the site. Theese people are orginized, and they do have the power to create changes. We need to do the same thing soon or we will be left out of the process when laws are made.

If you like at the incident page, you notice something rather quickly. 2 groups of reptiles make up the majority of the problems, Venomous and Burms. I personally do not keep, sell, or encourage the keeping of either. In fact in MY OPINION, they can pass all the laws they want against thoose species. However theese people want to use the few, to ban the majority. This is the problem. We as herpers will at some point need to choose to either be responsible in what we keep, or be told to keep nothing at all.

Just my opinions.
-----
Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
402-614-6641

"I am the Lizard King, I can do anything" - Jim Morrison

Edited for TOS violation

Edited on September 18, 2004 at 23:54:47 by PHGinger.

This is exactly the kind of division that we don't need. If you don't care for laws passed against burms, then how are you any better then those trying to pass laws against all reptiles?

Easy

Im not agains ALL REPTILE LAWS.

There I have said it, I am the "enemy".

I am agains ALL BLANKET REPTILE LAWS. There is (in my opinion) a big difference between a well thought out, and WISE law, and one that is brought on by people like this group.

Take the recent changes in the NY law. In my OPINION, that is a good law. Maybe they should allow for permits to obtain venomous, and burms, but is it everyones natural right to own a dangerous animal? In my OPINION NO.

I own a specialty shop, and I get people in on a daily basis asking for burms, venomous, and just about anything dangerous and cheap. Many of theese people have NEVER KEPT A REPTILE in their life. Most have no clue of the proper care for the animal, let alone what they are getting into. They just want a "TOUGH BIG ANIMAL".

Theese are the same people who later dump that animal on rescue services, humain societies, zoos, or worse in the local park. Actions like this do great harm to all our ablities to keep reptiles as pets. So I say again, NO IM NOT AGAINST ALL REPTILE LAWS.

Give me a good reason why ANYONE AND EVERYONE should be able to keep burms and venomous snakes? One good reason, I dont see it.

I have had the pleasure of going behind the scences in the Omaha Henery Dorley Zoo a few times. In areas with venomous snakes, anyone working with the snakes has to follow a number of procedures in order to do ANYTHING with the animals (CLEAN CAGES, FEED, ECT). They have to tag out with the species name of the animal being worked with, they have lights that warn people in other rooms that the next room has a venomous snake out of its cage, ect.

How many private keepers take theese steps, not all I assure you. How many have warned the local police and fire department of their venomous collection (a important thing for a fireman to know when hes trying to save a child from a burning house). How many have children in the same "facility" as their venomous snakes, let alone have a "facility"?

Im not saying NO ONE should be allowed to keep theese animals, but to ignore the danger they posses is quite ignorant on our part IN MY OPINION. Much like saying someone needs a fully automatic rifle for hunting deer, I just dont buy it.
-----
Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
402-614-6641

"I am the Lizard King, I can do anything" - Jim Morrison

This whole debate brings up a excellent point of how un-unified we all really are, and why we eventually will loose our rights to own, buy, sell, and breed reptiles. There is so much division in the reptile world it will be very hard to fight to maintain our rights for all. The fact of the matter remains that case of freedom. Our freedom to keep reptiles venomous or non-venomous. Other groups do this by forming and supporting nationwide groups to fight for there belief's. In doing so provide they provide the numbers,and dollars necessary to fight damaging legislation. The fact of the matter remains this is a WAR. If we unify we will win some battles and lose others, if not I feel that if we are destined to eventually loose them all. I ,as I'm sure we all do, have my own beliefs about what type of legislation there sould be regarging reptiles, but I also know that strenth comes in numbers. I think the first steps are deciding on a group that we ALL need to join and really get involved in, and trying to comply with all our local regulations that are already in place, as a group of rebels will likley never be heard. I am more than willing to help in any way I can to create unified group, however in order for it to work we all must come together to support the hobby, and animals we love! Any one may feel free to contact me regarging this matter, as I truly would love to help us all get on the same page.

Vincent Caruso
Snakeman1313@hotmail.com

np

I agree with everything else you said except the last sentence.

I actually have no stance one way or the other on guns. I dont own them, never have. I have never been harmed by one, so Im not against them. I do find the argument that one needs a fully automatic rifle to shoot a deer rather foolish. Now the argument that one needs a fully automatic to protect ones self from their own goverment, crooks, ect, thats another story. But dont hide behind hunting.

Again thats just a opinion of a guy who could really care less on that issue. Thanks for not hammering me hard on it, was an attempt at a joke.
-----
Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
402-614-6641

"I am the Lizard King, I can do anything" - Jim Morrison

So clearly, if someone is against the private keeping of adult African elephants, they are also against the keeping of pets in general? =p

I think we as a community need to learn to distinguish between species that simply aren't suitable for most of us and those that are, or the gubbament is going to do it for us some day, and it isn't going to be pretty.

Would you rather have to pass a test to legally keep hots/giants/crocodilians, or have herps banned entirely because we wanted it all or none? You can yell, "Don't tread on me!" all you want, but at the end of the day a bunch of "concerned soccer moms" in your town are going to have a lot more pull than "that weird snake guy down the street".

I agree with Mickey on this one as well. I think a permit or license should be issued for burms, retis, and hots. These are animals that require specialized care due to the potential danger they place to their owners and the general public if they get loose. Not everyone can keep these animals safely or responsibly. I don't see the harm in requiring peolpe to get their set-ups approved and and to get licensed. It may significantly reduce the negative incidents that are used as ammunition against our hobby.
-----
Jared Douglas

Everything I send to this site is deleted, am I being offensive to someone? Could the moderators that remove my messages please tell me why my replies get removed? I try to make them as productive and unoffensive as I can, like a said I have no idea what is wrong with them...

This post made it ?

>>Everything I send to this site is deleted, am I being offensive to someone? Could the moderators that remove my messages please tell me why my replies get removed? I try to make them as productive and unoffensive as I can, like a said I have no idea what is wrong with them...
-----
T/
Money Only Wished It Had The Control Over The World That FEAR Does !

Good way to fight this would be to sit back and let someone else do it for you right? Let that wench know she's gonna have a fight on her hands,her eMail address is right on the page. Drop her a line with a few kind words from a keepers point of view.
Or just continue to sit there waiting for someone else to fight the fight for you.

T/
-----
T/
Money Only Wished It Had The Control Over The World That FEAR Does !

While its a good idea in theory, I would like to point out a few things.

One you very unlikely to change her point of view, so dont go into it with that idea....LOL

Two, by all mean, if you choose to contact this site, please do it in a adult and professional way. The last thing we as a community need is a bunch of people emailing theese groups with childish threats, statements, ect. Also (and this is something I also need to do) spell check before you hit send. As a community we allready have the public image of a bunch of "illiterate rednecks who keep, YUCK, reptiles as pets". (note this is not at all how I feel about herpers, but it is a commonly held belief).
-----
Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
402-614-6641

"I am the Lizard King, I can do anything" - Jim Morrison

So dropping her address on mailing list for Skinhead Monthly,Gay Porn Quarterly and Adkins Ego Diet wouldnt be very constructive ?

>>While its a good idea in theory, I would like to point out a few things.
>>
>>One you very unlikely to change her point of view, so dont go into it with that idea....LOL
>>
>>Two, by all mean, if you choose to contact this site, please do it in a adult and professional way. The last thing we as a community need is a bunch of people emailing theese groups with childish threats, statements, ect. Also (and this is something I also need to do) spell check before you hit send. As a community we allready have the public image of a bunch of "illiterate rednecks who keep, YUCK, reptiles as pets". (note this is not at all how I feel about herpers, but it is a commonly held belief).
>>-----
>>Mickey Hinkle
>>The Lizard King Reptiles
>>http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
>>402-614-6641
>>
>>"I am the Lizard King, I can do anything" - Jim Morrison
-----
T/
Money Only Wished It Had The Control Over The World That FEAR Does !

Everything you all are saying is very true, but unless we unify and create a large group that can afford fight this battle we will lose in time. The fact is even if we all sent this woman a constructive well thought out letter about our feelings it wouldn't make a difference. The point is strength in numbers, one large group acting for all of our best intrests is the key. They are organized, unified and prepared to fight this on a large scale basis. We need to do the same. The only answer is to unify and self legislate before someone else does it for us.

I`ll just take mine underground and enjoy life.
What they dont know wont hurt`em.I`ll deal with "what if's" if and when they arise.You want to protect your rights then fight fire with fire. She wants to be a Legal Eagle so be it !
All the PETA flag wavers in the world cant touch a "Licenced Keeper"

>>Everything you all are saying is very true, but unless we unify and create a large group that can afford fight this battle we will lose in time. The fact is even if we all sent this woman a constructive well thought out letter about our feelings it wouldn't make a difference. The point is strength in numbers, one large group acting for all of our best intrests is the key. They are organized, unified and prepared to fight this on a large scale basis. We need to do the same. The only answer is to unify and self legislate before someone else does it for us.
-----
T/
Money Only Wished It Had The Control Over The World That FEAR Does !

Sure maybe your a "Licensed Keeper" now which I hope you are. What happens when the laws change and your suddenly not licensed anymore? Maybe youll be grandfathered so it won't effect the animals that you keep for pets. But what happens If you happen to breed these animals also, and you want to sell some of them. While theres some people that disregard the law, and will sell and buy animals regardless, alot of people won't. And if you think this is not going to happen just give it time. If we don't make a stand together these people will take all of our rights. You criticize the way they do things through the legal system. Thats the way this world works like it or not. Government and politics rule all and if we don't get with the program soon there wont be a "we" anymore except for the "underground" as you call it. Our goal should be to show them the dollar and cents of this hobby to gain some power then provide our own suggestions as to what would be fairer and safer legeslation for all. The people writing these laws don't have the knowledge on reptiles most of us have in our little fingers. Forget about PETA in my opinion they are way to far left to make any huge changes alone. Again its the "soccer moms" as someone put it that we have to worry about. Regardless of what anyone says its not about the animals to them, its about not having a 15 foot snake in the house next to theres.