Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm hoping somebody has some advice/experience with this: I have an approximately 4-year-old female sulcata who until now has been very healthy. She eats well and has been eliminating (both poop and pee) every morning, has plenty of energy (always trying to get out of her pen) and has been hydrated (bathed) a few times a week during the summer (more in winter) and gets her vitamins regularly. She's outside a lot, eating a lot of grass, etc., but she's always supervised and so far not eaten anything she shouldn't (unless you disapprove of the grass, which I know a lot of people do). On Sunday, she produced one stool and then was straining for about an hour or so, including after a bath, and then appeared to prolapse something that looked like a round pink thing. This continued every time she strained for about an hour and then we freaked and brought her to the vet. While we waited for about two hours, we had her walking around an exam room, during which she intermittently did this, emitting only a little watery, smelly substance and finally, just before the vet walked in, one tiny stool full of grass. The vet put her up on the table and was able to ascertain, by moving her tail (which is usually tucked up under her shell but which she'd been holding down against her rear), that the prolapse had reversed--apparently it was only occurring when she strained. They kept her overnight but she didn't strain anymore, nor did she eliminate anything. The doctor did a culture of the stool, plus an xray and a blood test, but found nothing wrong. He (her doctor--the other was the emergency vet) sent her home for us to observe since she was so uncomfortable being in a strange place (i.e. the clinic). Since then (Monday), she's been kind of quiet, but it has been cooler out so that's not totally surprising, and she's eaten and walked around, but not eliminated anything (poop or pee) and on Friday strained a couple times again, showing that same prolapse.

Has anyone experienced this? I checked out the archives, and if it wasn't for the not eliminating, I'd be starting to wonder if she's just reaching sexual maturation--and is even turning out to be male (freaky as that may seem, especially since we assumed she was male when we got her and two weeks later were told she was female and changed her name--that was three years ago). But why she's suddenly not eliminating, except for this little bit of watery (and smelly) substance--not diarrhea, but could be along those lines--I don't know. Unless it's a hormonal thing?

Any suggestions? The vet hasn't given up--we're going to talk to him on Monday and he says there's other things we can try--but he hasn't actually gotten to see the prolapse, and I don't know how much longer it's safe for her to go without eliminating, and we'd like to know what other people have experienced/done.

Thanks,
Sue

Susan, I hope you don't take offense of this but whenever I see the post Prolapse and Sulcata I can't help but giggle.

What made this story even funnier is that you were convinced it was a female... well... here's the deal. Your girl is probably a guy and he most likely just flashed you.

I could be wrong but I doubt it.

It's also curious that the vet didn't suggest this.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Sue,

I've had a couple of similar situations. The straining I experienced with my torts came from temporary impactions from eating sand/grit during the meal and eventually cleared itself out. I observed that the tort went a long time without evacuating and one tort even vomited from the gas buildup. Gas expulsion can occur from the front or back.

As far as the protrusion, I'd have also ask the same question as Ed... Could your tort be male? I've found that males show their business when straining or just relaxing in some cases. Or sometimes without reason (crazy boys!).

Females have been observed protruding sex organs, but it seems far less common. Attached is a pic of a female G Platynota showing a false hemipene - the only pic I've seen really. 9.9 times out of 10, you'll be able to spot the difference between a female and a male. A male's true hemipene will extend far past the tail and shell, going under the plastron toward the front. A females will not.

I'd say keep working on getting your tort to regular poops and in the long run, he'll be fine. As long as the protusion is only temporary, it's likely just a outcome of the straining. My vet at the time had me administer Flagyl which according to him, head herp vet for the SF Zoo, aided in digestion. After a couple weeks, my tort was pooping and back to normal.

Post a pic of the protrusion if you can. I'm sure the collective folks here can help you identify the sex at least.

Good luck.

Paul

Thanks to both of you. I don't know if I can get a pic, but if I can, I'll post it. In the meantime, I'm talking to my vet tomorrow, so I'll pass on your suggestions and let you know what he says. What's your experience on how long a tort can go without eliminating? I thought it was about two weeks, but my husband's been all freaked out, talking about sepsis. She/he is eating pretty healthily, in any case. My father is never going to let me hear the end of all this "sex change" stuff--he's still making jokes about the original "switch." That's what I get for not choosing an androgynous name!

If it is eating an walking tall the odds of it being septic are very close to nill.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Thanks. The vet is now trying a de-wormer just in case, hoping to avoid knocking her/him out for an internal. He's reluctant to use Flagyl--said there are potential side effects. My brother is freaking me out now because he used an insecticide in a room where she slept for two nights, though it was applied directly in the grooves of the walls and is a sticky powder and therefore apparently not airborne. She got nowhere near it--my mother cleaned the carpet and moldings and the tort was only in an enclosure (plastic bin) in that room and spent her days in another room that was untreated. It was a week prior to this thing happening, so it's probably not related, but my brother said what if it's renal failure or liver malfunction (since she hasn't apparently peed as well as not pooping)--it's a permetherine insecticide--delta methrin.

But then again, it is wierd that she had that one poop and then started straining that first day. It really does sound more like an obstruction, although nothing showed up on the xray. We've been bathing her every day to hydrate her, which seems like the right thing to do, especially since she strains more on the days when she hasn't been bathed, but I don't want to overhydrate and overwork the kidneys either.

We're moving next week, too, which will only stress her more.

How long can a tort go without eliminating anything and not be septic, anyway?

Also, I really hope strawberry leaves are ok. My father was encouraging her (him, whatever, can't get used to it) to eat them a couple of weeks ago. I haven't seen them on any lists of poisonous plants, but my husband keeps bringing it up...