Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey,

I hope this helps some...no flames are intended.

While many bites of the mangrove are comprable to that of a scorpion or wasp sting you also need to keep in mind that a severe envenomation is not needed for fatal results. Personally a bee sting, or scorpion hit (of most species) is not a big deal. At the same time every species (or even locale of a species) can cause a different raction amongst one individual. You never know how an individual will react with unique venom traits, and other complications like allergic reactions!

You may take a hit from a mangrove with only local swelling, and some discomfort. Your friend the same....but who knows! Everyone is effected differently by the venom of a rear fanged snake (or any snake for that matter). While the event of a mistake is slim (as far as carrier error and getting tagged) there is still that chance. Who knows who will be illegal?! Have you ever been tested to see if the enzymes and other components of an exotic species were serious to you as an individual? A rear fang VENOMOUS is still venomous, and need be treated as such! The risk of getting in trouble should something happen doesn't seem worth it. The moral weight of knowing a person could die due to you being cheap and not paying to have the best possible for your animal in transit is worth the money as well!

Shipping can be done various ways, but just because a snake is rear fanged means nothing...ask anyone tagged by a boomslang or twig snake Laws are tough with rear fanged venomous, but they are infact venomous...personally as a seller I would not take the risk of liability in shipping other than as safe as possible via air freight carrier, and I know others feel the same way. If something did happen you never know what the legal action would be! For an extra $50 you get a much less complicated set of legal reprecussions should something happen! I actually won't ship hots if it can be avoided as I don't need a civil suit from a carrier worker who was too curious to let well enough alone (it can happen). If you must have an animal shipped please consider all of the risks. The hot herp community will greatly appreciate this!

Best of luck should you obtain some...they are beautiful snakes! Please remember though that they are hot to an extent (more so to some), and be careful! You never know how you or anyone else will be effected by a bite!

Take Care,
Steve Clark

I understand that different people react in different ways to a bite but that was not why I was asking.
You could have a severe reaction to a hognose bite or a bite from a FWC but they are routinely shipped overnight. Why are mangroves the exception.
The added cost and hassle doesn't make it worth it for me. I would rather pick one up at a show.
If I buy the one I am interested in, I have the cost of the snake, the airline shipping charge, the box charge, and a 2 hour trip each way to the airport. Just not worth the hassle IMO.
I just would like to know why mangroves are treated differently.
BTW, there is a big difference between the bite of a mangrove and that of a boomslang. Not only can boomslangs deliver venom more easily with a bite but there have been deaths associated with their bites. As far as I know, there are no reported deaths due to a bite from a mangrove (not counting allergic reactions which could also come from a bite from a garter snake or a ringneck snake).

Hey,

Sorry if my pervious post seemed a flame, it was not intended as so.

Best bet is to pick on up in person so you can be sure you are getting a good animal! If possible I like to conduct business with people who have been established, seem to know their facts, and actually have the animals there to examine. This way you don't get a sick snake that was "fine upon shipment". Not sure who you were planning to deal with, but its a possibility!

As far as legal issues...I don't know if it is legal or not to ship them overnight vs air freight. You would need to look at all the regs for shipping living animals. If I can find the information I will email it to you directly.

I would also attempt to submit the info to your carrier of choice (be it UPS or whoever), and ask them to verify that it can be shipped through them and get some signatures! This way should you get into trouble with them you can point out that someone up the chain granted you written permission.

And yes, boomslangs are very deadly . I have never had the pleasure of that species fangs slipping into my skin, but I would imagine not many have! It is hard to find antivenin for them, moreso in the US! That is one species that I would rather avoid working with. Mangroves are nice snakes, but can be nasty...still a hit is not usually fatal. I am sure if it has happened (a fatal bite) it would not have been here in the US, from a captive snake. Even if you have serious problems related to a bite fast medical attention and our advanced care facilities could more than likely keep you going until the effects wore off.

FYI: some sellers ship a certain way because they don't know otherwise not to do so! That, or they just are not positive about the regs and would rather be safe than sorry. Other than liability issues if a regulation is interpreted differently by a judge than the buyer or seller the price to pay is often quite harsh!

I do understand your delta inconvenience though...I don't like driving to Philly to pick up snakes then having to drive back either! Shows are more convenient unless it is a large order.

Well, good luck getting the snake you want! Hopefully it won't be overly hard to find one that is more easily obtainable.

-Steve Clark