Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Do dart frogs have any UV Requirements? I currently use flourescent cool white lights in my terrarium, but I am thinking of getting a reptiglo 5.0 tropical terrarium light.
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Me fail english? That's unpossible

The lighting you have is fine. Darts don't require additional UV. They come from dense rainforests and are adapted to low light and lack of UV. Be sure you dust food with a vitamin powder that contains D3 as well as calcium. Use the powders designed for amphibians rather than reptiles, or use whatever the breeder you buy your frogs from recommends.

I'm currently using T-Rex tree frog dust, but a new line of vitamin products that has been researched and designed by a herp vet specializing in ambhibian physiology should be coming out at the end of September. This should be a great boon to the hobby.

About 98% of UV light is filtered out by glass and plexiglass covers anyway, and you sure don't want to put it directly in the tank.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

This is my terrarium so far, I have some work to do on it still. I just made some custom plexi glass tops for it. I need more plants and some back drops. This pic was taken before the plexi glass was cut to size. I have an ETA of Nov 21st to get my Dart Frogs. I want to make sure they have a stable environment before I commit to getting them.

Another view

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Me fail english? That's unpossible

>>This is my terrarium so far, I have some work to do on it still. I just made some custom plexi glass tops for it. I need more plants and some back drops. This pic was taken before the plexi glass was cut to size. I have an ETA of Nov 21st to get my Dart Frogs. I want to make sure they have a stable environment before I commit to getting them.
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>>Another view
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>>Me fail english? That's unpossible

Nice looking, but see if you can get some of that plastic picture sheet for the back of aquariums and put it on the back of the tank. That will at least block the wall behind, and doesn't cost too much. I think there's even an Amazon themed one.

snip "Darts don't require additional UV. They come from dense rainforests and are adapted to low light and lack of UV."

Several arguments against this,

1) many darts dwell in areas where the canopy is broken or even a number of meters into the trees, these frogs are reqularly exposed to UVB light. Most darts do not live in the sections of the understory where light does not penetrate as there is a lack of cover for them in these regions. For many species that use bromeliads as tadpole deposition sites, there has to be sufficient light for the bromeliads to grow, if the bromeliads can grow then UVB is penetrating the canopy as there is at least fairly intense lighting intermitantly during the day.
2) If this was true then darts would not get hypovitaminosis D3 as they would produce all the D3 they needed. This would mean that the frogs would not suffer from some of the common calcium imbalances. This is patently untrue.
3) UVB is a short wave length and can be refracted/reflected off of leaves and other items thus penetrating the canopy readily.

If there is sufficient D3 provided in the diet the frogs do not need to be exposed to UVB.

Ed

Ed: Do you provide supplementary UV lighting for the darts at the zoo? If so, how is this provided?

My bromeliads grow and bloom without UV supplementation. There is the broad spectrum florescent lighting and bright room light from windows. The amount of UV that actually penetrates both the window glass and the terrarium glass must be very low.

I had suggested that supplementing D3 is necessary.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

One of the major difference is that artificial lighting (even broad spectrum lights) does not produce a continous spectra unlike natural sunlight. (In addition unless the "broad spectrum light specifically lists that it produces UVB it will not produce UVB, it may produce UVA hence all of the listing about the production of UV light). I used the example of the bromeliads in the wild to indicate that there was exposure to UVB as the light is from a source that produces a significant intensity (the converse about plants grown under artificial lights is not true).
Window glass and aquaria/terraria glass absorb 100% of UVB light (this also applies to other acrylics. In short if it is not listed as being UVB transparent it isn't).

I'm not sure where that statement about UVB exposure in the wild for dart frogs originally started but even the most shaded areas under the canopy are not the same as being in a cave.

At work we are moving (as funds allow) to replacing all of the lights with compact flourescents that produce both UVA and UVB. The lights do not pass through glass or plastic (where we have changed over the bulbs).
Anurans can see in the blue spectra and with animals that can see in this region it has been demonstrated with a number of species that UVA is important for social behaviors. As many insects demonstrate reflection in the UV spectra this may also be important for prey recognition in anurans.

For some previous discussion check out the link below under feeding (there is also an article on "MBD" that contains some of the information on UV.

http://www.tracyhicks.com/FFAQ.htm

Ed

Thanks Ed. I hope I have not confused Skatedorks original questions too much. I have read some studies that show UVA enhances breeding activity in bull frogs, but nothing on darts or other anurians that may be different. I did not mean to imply there is no UV that penetrates the canopy, and it is certainly not a cave, but that unlike reptiles, and some other anurians that are more exposed to sunlight, darts don't bask in it, and it isn't necessary if you are supplementing with D3 in a small terrarium. I understand that UVB converts the provitamin D3 to D3 which is necessary for calcium utilization in the wild environment. But if one is supplementing D3 (with darts) UV isn't necessary in a terrarium. My concern was that if he went to the expense of adding a UV light, it wouldn't do any good if it were on top of the plexiglass, and might possibly be harmful if it were under it, directly over the small vivarium.

I'm sure you are aware of Sue Donoghue's work on herp nutrition at Walkabout Farms, and am curious about what you think of it. This should probably be another thread, but I'll add the link here for skatedork to peruse. It is a commercial enterprise, so may be inappropriate to tout here, but no more so than the constant mention of other brands of supplements. Thanks again, Ed. I'm sometimes don't say things clearly and generalize too much.
Link

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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

At work we have been working with Sue Donoghue for over ten years as part of some of her studies and were one of the original studies in developing supplements for Galapagoes tortoises.

I will not discuss my opinions of her products in a positive or negative fashion as another person was threatened with a lawsuit for asking what Dr. Donoghue percieved as detrimental questions online. I do not wish to risk a similar problem.

While at this time amphibians have not been shown to bask to supplement UVB exposure like some reptiles(such as chameleons) many species such as pumilio are often found sitting in direct sunlight. The exposure time may not need to be very long depending on how efficiently the frog converts provitamin D to D3.
At this time, oral supplementation seems to be effective for dart frogs as long as the calcium/phosphorus ratio is correct and the ratio of vitamin A to D3 to E is close to 10 to 1 to 0.1 (this was the last studied ratios that work). The problem is that the minimal required levels are not well known.

Any significant lights over the enclosure can significantly raise the temperature of the enclosure if there isn't significant levels of ventilation. Most of the "full spectrum" bulbs that produce UVB have not been linked to UV burns unlike the blue UV bulbs (see Frye for examples of this in reptiles).

Well, I hope between the two of us we were able to answer all of his questions.

Ed

Thanks, Ed. You've clarified some things for me, and I hope for the original questions.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus