Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey,

Ok, I've built the super cool mini-rack, bought the high protein food, and the mothers are still eating the babies. I've attached photos- if you see anything I have wrong in my husbandry, let me know. The top and bottom racks are fancy mice, the middle is rats. The fancy mice breed like crazy, but immediately eat their babies. The rats have only bred 2 times, same female both times, and she ate the babies. The first time she ate them immed., the second time she left 5 for 4 days and then finished them off.

1. Should I separate all others from nursing mothers?
2. They are in the garage in Florida, are they too warm?
3. Are the rats & mice in too close of a proximity to each other?
4. Do they need more nesting materials?
5. Do they need a hide area?
6. Do they need more than just the pellet food I give them?
7. Anything else would be greatly appreciated...I've been trying this since June and don't have the first living baby to show for it!

Hey,

thanks for helping all!

How can you put more than one pic on per post?

thanks,

Steve

np

np

I seperate the expectant mothers from the rest of the colony if she eats them then i feed them as they are carnivourous and won't get you anywhere. But i seperate to make sure it's the mom,I don't like white mice for this reason also, always eating their young. I believe in variety fruits,veges,rice etc they may feel the need to be fed more than just chow, I mix up dog/cat/hamster/bird food all together as the main diet and with this method i havn't lost any babies. The only bad thing about removing moms is putting them back the colony may not accept them or she may end up eating her young when they are fully furred when you bring her back and forth to be bred and to nurse, this is what has happened to me many times. I found out if i take the mother after she is done with her babies, take the other colony and place them with her in a total seperate tank, let them mingle then put everyone except the babies into the original place where the colony came from and she will be reaccepted in most cases.
I find if the weather is too hot, they will not breed, I use soft cotton bedding like from a mattress and TP tubs and a wheel keeps them busy and deturs from fighting,eating young.
As far as seperation from one species to another that shouldn't have anything to do with it,but just a matter of experimenting is all. Good luck and feel free to e me if you want pictures tips etc.
I raise large littered rodents with this and more methods that I use and mine are in fishtanks.

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My roomates are2 boas, 4 corns,Rotti,3cats and snake food AKA the food chain.

Yeah, I guess the heat is getting to them. Where do you get the stuffing for bedding? I'll be sure to separate the mothers. What's your take on this Sonya or others?

Thanks,

Steve

>>Yeah, I guess the heat is getting to them. Where do you get the stuffing for bedding? I'll be sure to separate the mothers. What's your take on this Sonya or others?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Steve

It may be the heat. I wouldn't separate the mothers, it will give you more problems tring to put them back in with the others. I have never separated mothers, too much stress on them, better chance they will eat the babies. Also what are you feeding? Still my guess would be the heat.
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Anna

1.0.0 Ball Python {Shane}
1.0.0 Afican Bullfrog {Bungy}
2.2.8 Crested Geckos {Mel, Harley, Sally, Momma, unnamed}
0.0.1 Giant Black African Millipede {Milly}
2.0.0 Parakeets {Storm, Cloud}
4.0.0 Button Quails {Bob, unnamed}
1.0.0 Short Tail Possum {Eddie}
2.0.0 Pet Rats {Carlos the hairless, Ibin the dumbo}
2.1.0 Dogs Lab/Pionter mix,Basset Hound,German Shepherd {Vegas,Shortie,Nevada}
2.1.0 Kitties {Kenny, Sebation, Phoebe}
1.1.0 Ferrets {Weasle, Girlie}
1.0.0 Betta {George}
1.0.0 Boyfriend {Brian}
1 fish tanks with lots of fish
2 Crested Gecko eggs layed 7/24
And the bugs

Thats it for now.....

pet stores sell it or it is the same as the stuffing in the mattress of your bed, find one that isn't too nasty looking and is about to be tossed out and get all of it. TP or kleenex works just as well.
I have a mom who gave birth to 12 kids i feed all but 4 off and those four i put in a seperate container as they are not weaned yet and placed another mother with them and now she is finishing the job while the real mom retained sperm, as i havn't returned her to get rebred and she is huge and ready to pop again, weird how that works, she looks sooo miserable, but with new pinkies and practically weaned babies the competition is tough with two different stages like that.
If you seperate the preg's and do as i do with the reintro, then that should be fine, another way is to clean the cage she will go into with the others so there are no scents present and it confuses them. My little observations are working for me at least.

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My roomates are2 boas, 4 corns,Rotti,3cats and snake food AKA the food chain.

Tossing in tissue paper tubes, paper towel tubes and even small pvc tubes will give mice something to do other th an eat their young. An exercise wheel is great but if you have too many mice, it winds up being a fight who gets to use it. If you have more than 4 adult mice, I would put in two wheels. Get the kind with solid or wire mesh bottoms instead of the barred ones, as mice tend to fall through and break their legs. Hoppers can also injure themselves in them as well. If the bared ones are the only kind available, you can use ducktape to cover the bars and give a solid floor. the only side effect is it gets grungy after awhile, though it's not too hard to wash off the ducttape (just put it on top and bottom, so there is no sticky side exposed).

One other thing, if there is alot of activity around the racks, that could add stress. People peaking in on them alot can stress them, especially if they don't really have anywhere to hide. Socializing them to get used to you, may help but that would mean you have to be willing to spend time with them, leaving your hand hang in the cage for them to come and sniff and get used to your scent, holding them etc. If they are store bought mice, especially if bought as feeders and adults, they probably haven't been socialized and are high strung and may never tame. In which case, work on the younger females you grow up to replace the parents instead.

I run 1.4 females to a small kitty litter pan, I never seperate the females, every time i did my production went down.If you leave the male with the females they can be pregnant and nursing at the same time for maximum production, downside is they wear down alot faster. I usually rotate out colonies in six month intervals unless they still have large healthy litters in which case i will stretch it a bit.

Tom

>>Hey,
>>
>>Ok, I've built the super cool mini-rack, bought the high protein food, and the mothers are still eating the babies. I've attached photos- if you see anything I have wrong in my husbandry, let me know. The top and bottom racks are fancy mice, the middle is rats. The fancy mice breed like crazy, but immediately eat their babies. The rats have only bred 2 times, same female both times, and she ate the babies. The first time she ate them immed., the second time she left 5 for 4 days and then finished them off.
>>
>>1. Should I separate all others from nursing mothers?
>>2. They are in the garage in Florida, are they too warm?
>>3. Are the rats & mice in too close of a proximity to each other?
>>4. Do they need more nesting materials?
>>5. Do they need a hide area?
>>6. Do they need more than just the pellet food I give them?
>>7. Anything else would be greatly appreciated...I've been trying this since June and don't have the first living baby to show for it!

If it were me I would assess a couple things.
How often are you checking on them? Are you pestering them enough to stress them into cannabalizm? If a mom is so torqued that she thinks you are a threat every time you are in there she is gonna eat the pups. Some people will say leave them the heck alone and some will say handle the parents enough that they are not terrified of you. I do the latter and I also forgive first time moms.
The second thing is are they too hot and eating pups for hydration and the heat stress? How hot are they? Heat will kill them faster than cold. If you are over 80 or 85 I would blame the heat almost absolutely.
I would NOT separate a breeding group of mice for any reason. I believe in setting them up and letting them go. You separate and reintroduce and you might as well be starting new groups all the time as they are gonna take time to resocialize and they are way more likely TO CANNABALIZE...adults or pups.

The rat eating two litters in a row is in the same heat?? If so I would lower temps and give her one more go. She eats that then she goes in the freezer too.
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Sonya

Haven't we warned you about tampering with the structure of a chaotic system?
Mrs. Neutron

OK, I breed rats and rarely have cannibalism. I keep 1.4 in a large bin similar to yours but with a food hopper and MUCH more food in it than yours. Here are a few things that may be causing your problems;
1. Heat heat and more heat. Rats will CEASE to breed at 80 degrees guaranteed, and may stop breeding over 75.
2. Light. Humans would go crazy if they were left in total darkness or total light 24 hours a day. Cycle your rats.
3. Bad mothers. If I do have a mother who decides to eat their young, they become food to one of my many balls.
4. Food: you mentioned "high protein". How high? From my experiences, any food that has over 23% protein causes problems with my rats. I feed Mazuri 6F and have NEVER had a problem on that food.
5. Too much bedding I've noticed isn't helpful. Stick to a decent amount but not overkill.
6. Type of substrate; pine and cedar: BAD. Period. Not too bad for feeders, as their only on it for a short while, but VERY BAD for breeders, who live out their days on it.
7. Dirty environment; I clan my colonies every 3 days period. They start to smell after that. Bad. How would you like to live in some ammonia-soaked oxygen? Strong breeders need to be kept full, happy and clean.
There are a few other reasons, but that should help you out a bit. Good luck.

Thanks for all the awesome responses. I'm really excited to get a litter that doesn't get eaten! I was keeping them in the garage over the summer in FL, so that has to be the culprit! It is not air conditioned, so I moved them into my classroom (I'm a teacher) where they will have AC all the time. I'll try to not let the kids bother them too much.

As far as husbandry,

1. What type of bedding would you use?

2. How can you tell who is the baby eater in a colony?

Thanks again!

Steve

I personally use aspen, I would steer clear of pine and cedar.
As for finding the culprit baby-eater; pay attention. Really is no other way other than to catch her red-handed (both literally and figuratively).