Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is a little boy. What kind is he?

a)hypo
b)pink pastel
c)regular albino (orange)

Is he mateable with the one below to produce homozygous offspring?

Thanks.
CP

?

Western Hogs are variable in color. Some are more reddish, others are greenish, others are yellowish. When you produce albinos, you see this variation as well. So there are pinkish albinos, yellowish albinos, etc.

Most of the names associated with albino hogs are nothing more than that....names.

As for the idea of a hypo albino...how is that possible?

A hypo (=hypomelanistic) snake has less melanin than normal. An albino has none. So if you have none, how could you also have less than normal?
-----
Chris Harrison

if the hypo, and albino ting isnt possible then what with the "hypino" milk snakes? im not saying this is a true trait that hognose can express...im just asking a question! phil

sorry..i was reffering to the hybino. i still dont know what the deal with this animal is, but hogs in my opinion are still the best snake!

I sit corrected on there being 3 separate loci of amelanistism in hognosed snakes. I had not heard of that.

My understanding of hybino hondurans is as follows -

Hypo hondurans are unusual in that they are called hypo due to reduced width of the black bands. Therefore they have wider red bands. When you breed this trait into an albino lineage, you would see a snake with wide red bands and narrow pink bands (where the black would be). So the hybino would have wider red and narrower pink bands than a normal amel.

The hypo hogs I have seen don't have the reduction of black pigment as localized, so it would be hard to see where they were lacking black once you removed the black pigment overall. I guess they could have a slightly more yellow/pink cast, but I imagine if you lined up 10 hybinos and 10 albinos each showing the range of variation within the morph, you would have trouble picking out which was which in every case.
-----
Chris Harrison

>>I sit corrected on there being 3 separate loci of amelanistism in hognosed snakes. I had not heard of that.
>>
>>My understanding of hybino hondurans is as follows -
>>
>>Hypo hondurans are unusual in that they are called hypo due to reduced width of the black bands. Therefore they have wider red bands. When you breed this trait into an albino lineage, you would see a snake with wide red bands and narrow pink bands (where the black would be). So the hybino would have wider red and narrower pink bands than a normal amel.
>>
>>The hypo hogs I have seen don't have the reduction of black pigment as localized, so it would be hard to see where they were lacking black once you removed the black pigment overall. I guess they could have a slightly more yellow/pink cast, but I imagine if you lined up 10 hybinos and 10 albinos each showing the range of variation within the morph, you would have trouble picking out which was which in every case.
>>-----
>>Chris Harrison
-----
Chris Harrison

The albino and pastel pink albino are completely different traits in westerns. So judging by the color of your second pic, I would say that is a pastel pink albino - but there may be now way to be sure. I don't know a lot about genetics, but I think if you breed that with your normal albino, the babies will be possible het for both traits. But like I said, I really don’t know. There are plenty of breeders of the albinos that visit this forum, maybe they can help you out. Great looking snakes too, BTW.
Good luck.
-----
James

There are actually three distince genes that carry a form of albinism in western snakes. They are all a type of albinism but they have received different 'pseudonyms' to distinguish the three carrier genes and types.

1) True albinos. These carry an orangish color and appear to lack melanin period. Red eyes.

2) Pink Pastel albinos. These have a subdued red AND melanin pigments which causes the animal to be a washed out pink like a snow corn. Red eyes.

3) 'Hypo' albinos. These appear to have a reduction in melanin but they do express some coloration and have a bright red expression. They have red eyes as well.

All indications so far suggest that these three strains are distinct and would not produce albinos if any one was cross-bred with another.

Sadly, I believe I bought a mated pair and ended up with an 'albino' female and a 'pink pastel albino' male. This will only result in double hets.

CP

This is an adult male albino Western Hognose. This is the strain that is typically called "albino". They vary from yellow to orange.

This is the Pink Pastel Albino Western Hognose Snake. This is an adult male with typical coloration although some are more pink, especially as juveniles.

In my opinion this is another strain of albino, possibly a T positive albino. Most animals are bright red although some are more reddish orange. We use the term "hypo" to distinguish this strain from the others and since the original person marketing these snakes has named them as such, I'll follow along so as not to confuse anyone further.

Thanks for posting the three pictures. That confirms my understanding of the albino strains.

However, I have a hard time distinguishing them as neonates.

Can you possibly ID these two individuals?

Although it's hard to be 100% positive because the individual variation, it appears you have a pink pastel albino and an albino. Have you spoken with the person who sold them to you?

The guy I bought them from is actually a wholesaler who bought them for himself and then changed his mind on keeping and breeding them.

He said one of them was picked up at a show in Havre De Grace, MD and the other at a show in Chicago. I asked him before hand if they were true albinos and he said yes, but like many people in this forum, I dont' think he knew the difference between the three distinct strains.

I did get them at a very good price though and they have eaten once in my care. However, the female is being a bit of a pain right now. I just caught some baby anoles to offer her so we'll see how that goes.

CP

How about a pic with both of them together. Check out west texas retiles web site and he has pics of both and a pic with them together and its pretty obvious. Who did you get your pair from they should stand behind their genetics???

Matt