Reptile & Amphibian Forums

this is a reply to the message further down about the oketee having an orange belly...im not positive but i think i read somewhere that the orange belly is what makes it an oketee...i think they are supposed to have the orange over the checkerboard pattern...my girl not sure if she normal or oketee..maybe both is getting the orange in her tail...underneath and the rest is white with black checkers... it will be interesting to see her grow more as she is getting brighter orange and thicker black as she goes...she is a yearling and 2feet 6 inches...quite a big girl
if anyone knows for surehow to tell an oketee from a normal please let me know..i have some pics below of my 2 corns together...they are kinda bad and she was just going into shed at the time so she isnt as bright as can be, i will try to get some pics of them apart and then maybe somebody will be able to tell if shes oketee phase?

sorry other pic

The orange colored "wash" over the last one-third to one-half of a corn's body is normal for Okeetees and normals, mostly because okeetees are normals.

Here are the two definitions of "okeetee" as they are currently used in the hobby/business:

Okeetee (also called "Hunt Club" corns) -- any corn either taken directly from the grounds of the Okeetee Hunt Club, or an animal that is a direct descendant (in every direction) from animals that were captured on those grounds. Although a large percentage of these animals may well have a specific "look" to them, this is not the defining characteristic of these animals being known as "Okeetee." In this context, the filial generation designations (F1, F2, F3, etc.) are referring to the numbers of generations a particular snake is from its nearest wild caught ancestor.

Okeetee phase (also called "Lookeetees" -- Any cornsnake, regardless of origin, that have a "look" that was made famous by animals that had originated in the Okeetee locality. This "look" is usually identified by severaly key qualities all being present inthe same animal: Deep red saddles, outlined by thick black borders, on a dark orange ground color, with a white belly, having very black checkers. As the animal ages, its coloration intensifies until the animal is about four to five feet long. Also as it ages, the belly will oftentimes get a progressively, orange wash over the posterior portion.

Neither of these characteristics are determined by any type of recessive genetic consideration. Therefore, it is impossible for an animal to be "het" for okeetee, regardless of the definition used.

As to whether an animal is an okeetee or a normal, you can only make such a determination by dealing with the two definitions separately. Is it the product of pure locality breeding, with all of its ancestors tracing directly back tot he Hunt Club in every line? If not, it cannot be a locality Okeetee (Hunt Club corn). Does the animal have the characteristics of the Okeetee phase as described above so much that it stands out as being unique among other "normals?" If not, it cannot be rightly called an okeetee phase (Lookeetee).

The first definitin is cut and dried. Either the locality requirements are met, or they are not (although there are some who mix and match the definitions to a certain degree, but to each his or her own, I suppose). The okeetee phased animals are so called based on the subjective opinions of the ones selling the animals. They either are okeetee phased animals, or they are not, but each person will have to make up his or her own mind on each individual animal, and severla people looking at the same animal may well come up with vastly differing opinions.

Sorry to have been so long-winded in this, but there simply is no easy definition of Okeetee, and I haven't seen anyone put it all down in one post for a while. So, there you go.

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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

Thanks Darin, I had asked that question a few post below because I had noticed my Okeetee/normal had pure white with checkerboarding till you get to about mid-body, then the white bellie/ventral area starts to change to orange. I wasn't sure if there were any okeetees/normals that had pure white all the way from chin to tail, or if they all made the change to orange from about mid-body to tail.

Steve

"The orange colored "wash" over the last one-third to one-half of a corn's body is normal for Okeetees and normals, mostly because okeetees are normals."

Awesome explanation Darin!
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Ken Roshak
BlackSwampSerpents@toast.net

Great Post.. I was wondering, how are your Amel Bloodred Motley hets doing? You are one year ahead on me. Can you post pics of them? How many did you keep yourself? I have 2.2 and gave one friend 1.2 and another friend 0.1. So in in total 'we' have 2.5. That should be enough to beat some odds

Marcel
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Marcel Poots (Holland)
'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield

>>Great Post.. I was wondering, how are your Amel Bloodred Motley hets doing? You are one year ahead on me. Can you post pics of them? How many did you keep yourself? I have 2.2 and gave one friend 1.2 and another friend 0.1. So in in total 'we' have 2.5. That should be enough to beat some odds
>>
>>Marcel
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>>Marcel Poots (Holland)
>>'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield
>>
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Marcel Poots (Holland)
'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield

I have 2.5 animals in all: 1.2 triple hets for amel motley and bloodred, and 1.3 amels het for motley and bloodred. The father was the darkest bloodred I've ever seen, and their mother was an amel motley that was very nearly a candy cane in appearance.

These yearlings are all very healthy and should be producing very nice offspring in a year or two. I'm really interested in seeing what happens with all the mixtures ... especially the amel motley bloodreds!

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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

>>I have 2.5 animals in all: 1.2 triple hets for amel motley and bloodred, and 1.3 amels het for motley and bloodred. The father was the darkest bloodred I've ever seen, and their mother was an amel motley that was very nearly a candy cane in appearance.
>>
>>These yearlings are all very healthy and should be producing very nice offspring in a year or two. I'm really interested in seeing what happens with all the mixtures ... especially the amel motley bloodreds!

I am more interested in the Bloodred Motley but a Amel Bloodred Motley would be nice too I am a bit worried about not being able to reconize Bloodred Motleys in the clutches. I really really hope to see good white/grey heads and typical Bloodred bellies on them. But since no one ever produced a Bloodred Motley (knowingly) there is no way to tell what the bellies look like. I am glad you will be some help because I will have some reference. The Bloodred that I used is not one of the best I have seen. He fathered my Bloodred/Pewter clutch and I had only a few with grey heads. So I am afraid that crossing the outcross back will result in even less Bloodred-like Bloodreds. But I could be wrong. Never done this before

Marcel
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Marcel Poots (Holland)
'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield

Oh but although the Bloodred male is not one of the best I have seen all outcross offspring are the reddest normal corns I have ever seen
Link

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Marcel Poots (Holland)
'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield