Reptile & Amphibian Forums

If anyone has experience with redfoots (Terry! help!) and has a few minutes, I'd like to e-mail you with Ndugu's health issues to see if you have any suggestions. We visited our vet today, who is a wonderful lady, and his prognosis is now officially poor. He's gone downhill so quickly that I don't know what to do...I'm looking for alternative remedies or anything that could help save our little guy. In summary, he's been ill since we rescued him (maybe a compromised immune system from prolonged poor husbandry in the past?) and has recurring pneumonia and parasites. As of today, we have him on Fortaz (sp?) (Amakacin didn't work, and Baytril makes him vomit) for the respiratory problems and are treating the bugs with Panacure...In the last two days, he's become listless and less personable than usual--still eating and perking up when I come over to say hi, but he's not the Ndugu I know...any help would be appreciated more than I can say. Thanks!

Sounds like what happened with one of my redfoots. Have you treated him with a round of Flagyl yet?

Parasites can do a number on a tort.
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Kelly Wood

1.1 Cherry Head Redfoots
1.0 Brazillian Redfoots
0.0.2 Leopard tortoises
1.1 Sandfire Bearded Dragons
1.0 Maliuromastyx
0.2 Dogs
2.2 Parakeets
1.3.1 Eastern box turtles
2.6.1 three-toed box turtles
0.2 white, black tail japenese bantams

We're doing a three-day round of Panacure right now--not to sound naive, but what's the difference between the two? I'd be happy to switch to Flagyl if it would be more appropriate...

>>We're doing a three-day round of Panacure right now--not to sound naive, but what's the difference between the two? I'd be happy to switch to Flagyl if it would be more appropriate...

the respiratory infection is the acute problem and i would focus treatment on that first, then worry about the worms. the tortoise can live with worms for years, but they often succumb to respiratory infections in very short periods of time. what kind of worms were identified?

the panacur is specific for round worms. flagyl is for protozoan infections. have protozoans been identified in the fecal? if not, then don't use the flagyl.

the vet needs to culture the respiratory mucus and do a sensitivity test to see which antibiotic will be effective. i would advise a more aggressive approach to the respiratory problem.

good luck,
matt

one last thing. please forgive me if you're already doing this, but temps are crucial through this. make sure that your tortoise has access to high temps. one of the "cool" things that reptiles do is behaviorally thermoregulate a fever to help fight infections. increase the wattage of your lamps, add another one, lower them, whatever you have to do to allow your tort to get warmer may help.

matt

I'm buying a third heat lamp (it's a big enclosure!) and I'll ask the vet about doing a culture.

This is why it is good to get the advice of a vet to begin with. Once you get it down then you can do it on your own.

Flagyl is Metronidozole which is a good anerobic antibiotic in addition to an antiprotozoal. It is extremely safe when used on tortoises. They seem to have a very high tolerence to the drug.

Panacur is fenbendozole which is used against nematodes and the like. There is some recent question as to the safety of this drug due to the results of what happened to some birds.

The Flagyl is the drug you probably want to use. Be sure to keep it well hydrated.

I was wondering... didn't I mention this to you when you first asked this question?
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Ed, forgive me if I'm getting unnecessarily defensive (I'm way too stressed right now), but I've been taking Ndugu to a vet since the day we purchased him. He's had regular appointments to check up on this respiratory problem, but he just took such a quick turn (literally in a day) that we had no way of anticipating what was about to happen. If we knew his history, it would probably help, but we don't, so we're doing everything we can given the circumstances. I've been keeping him hydrated, of course. Don't remember anyone mentioning Flagyl to me, but it's possible I've just lost it in the mix...Don't mean to sound snappy; it's just been a long couple of days.

If that was 'snappy' you are one mellow person.

The runny nose is not always a sign of respiratory problems.

Ask the vet about the Flagyl. As I said, it is a great anerobic antibiotic which cover most of the 'bad bugs'. It will also take care of any parasites/ most protozoa.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Thanks, EJ...I will definitely look into Flagyl, I swear! Your help, as always, is tremendously appreciated.

it really tears me up to hear stories like these. best wishes for the both of you.

np

Put him under a hot spot so that his core temperature is raised all day long. Soak him at night in water laced with colloidal minerals. Let the temperature drop at night so as not to encourage the parasites. Olive leaf extract is a great immune booster and is anti-microbial. Try visualizing him as being healthy and strong whenever you touch him. I hope he recovers completely!

Take care.
Janie Malsin
Upscale Reptiles
bpython@bellsouth.net

Hi,

I had this list of poisonous plants from the Turtle and Tortoise Club, pothos is in it. Did you say Ndugu was eating it? Does the vet said anything about poisoning/plants?

Poison Plants - go immediately to the vet if your tortoise eats one of these.
· Arrowhead Vine (Syngonium podophyllum)
· Azalea (Rhododendron occidentale)
· Begonia
· Bird of Paradise (Strelitzia reginae)
· Boston Ivy (Parthenocissus tricuspidata)
· Boxwood (Buxus sempervirens)
· Buttercup family (Ranunculus species)
· Caladium
· Calla Lily (Zantedeschia species)
· Candytuft (Iberis)
· Castor Bean (Ricinus communis)
· Chinese Evergreen (Aglaonema modestum)
· Chinaberry (Melia azedarach)
· Creeping Charlie (Glechoma hederacea)
· Crowfoot (Ranunculus sceleratus)
· Cyclamen
· Daffodil (Narcissus)
· Dianthus
· Dumb cane (Dieffenbachia amoena)
· Elephant's Ear (Caladium)
· Euphorbia
· Ficus Benjamina
· Fiddleleaf Fig (Ficus lyrata)
· Foxglove (Digitalis purpurea)
· Gardenia
· Grape Ivy (Cissus rhombifolia)
· Heart Ivy (Hedera helix)
· Heavenly Bamboo (Nandina domestica)
· Holly (Ilex)
· Hyacinth (Hyacinthus orientalis)
· Ivy (Hedera helix)
· Jerusalem Cherry (Solanum pseudocapsicum)
· Juniper (Juniperus species)
· Lantana (Lantana camara)
· Lily of the Nile (Agapanthus africanus)
· Lily of the Valley (Convallaria species)
· Lobelia
· Majesty (Philodendron hastatum)
· Marigold (Tagetes species)
· Mistletoe (Phorodendron flavescens)
· Morning Glory (Ipomoea species)
· Mother-in-Law Plant (Caladium)
· Mother-in-Law Tongue (Sansevieria trifasciata)
· Mushrooms
· Needlepoint Ivy (Hedera helix)
· Nephthytis (Syngonium podophyllum)
· Nightshade (Solanum nigrum)
· Oleander (Nerium oleander)
· Parlor Ivy (Philodendron cordatum)
· Periwinkle (Vinca species)
· Philodendron
· Poinsettia (Euphorbia pulcherrima)
· Pothos (Epipremnum aureum)
· Pyracanthra
· Rhododendron (Ericaceae)
· Rosary Bean (Abrus precatarius)
· Rubber Tree (Ficus elastica decora)
· Schefflera
· Shasta Daisy (Chrysanthemum maximum)
· Spider Mum (Chrysanthemum morifolium)
· Split Leaf Philodendron (Monstera deliciosa)
· String of Pearls (Senecio rowleyanus or S. herreinus)
· Sweet Pea (Lathyrus odoratus)
· Umbrella Tree (Schefflera actinophylla)
courtesy of Califrnia Turtle and Tortoise Club

All the best for Ndugu...

Tina Turtle