Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone else notice how many people are passing off light pastels for hypos these days? I see way too many being advertised. Can anyone explain what is going on? Hypos should all look like that one in pic below, or close anyway. A Salmon bred to a normal has a 50/50 litter. I think I have seen some of the normals being passed off as hypos. Just my 2 cents. Andy Federico

a few newbie friends of mine are driving me crazyyyyyyyyy asking me questions about this n that !! and quite apparently from the things im seeing being posted ive been wrong about things !! or is it the ones advertising wrong ?

can someone please shed a light for my newbie friends here , what is a pastel and what is a hypo etc etc ?? cause quite frankly even im not 100% sure anymore . thanks , koky
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NO BEAUTY LIKE THE BEAUTY OF A TRUE REDTAIL !!

This isn't a very popular opinion, but here it goes:
In my opinion, the 'pastel' morph isn't a valid one. I have seen COUNTLESS common BCI's that are labeled as 'pastel'. What? That boa looks exactly like every other BCI in any random pet store in America. I just don't get it. Sure, some look nicer than others, but that is hardly proof that it is a genetic 'pastel'. However, everyone needs their own morph. Plus, 'pastel' status could bring in a few more $bucks$ too. Whatever happened to being ok with owning a common BCI? I still have the very first boa (BCI) I purchased in 1998. He is better looking than most 'pastels' I have seen advertised... and I bought him for $25. What a great deal!
Please, go easy on me... I'm very fragile.
ha ha ha
- Eric

you're right about most people labeling normals as pastels, whether to try to get extra cash or whatever..
but REAL pastels are a world of difference from common boas!

There are few exceptional REAL lines of pastels out there..

I suggest you look for pics from

Jeff Ronne / Boaphile
Erich Gaertner / Joel DuBay
Davey Fig
Alex Smith

The animals these guys produce, compared to the animals 'normals' produce, are a world of difference..

Just my $.02

Thanks, Joe

PS - Oh, and ain't nothing wrong with a 'common/normal' BCI !!!
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Yeah, I agree with you Joe: Jeff Ronne's 'Pastel' line is not your 'common' BCI. However, if the boa isn't from this line genetically, then I would consider the animal a nice looking BCI (not that I have ever seen a bad looking boa!).
- E

I think the ads you see are people who describe them as 'salmon colored', even though it is not worded that way.
Another possibility is that they are unexperienced and were sold them this way.
And yet another, they are oldtimers and don't know the difference/are not caught up with the genetics and terminology.

There are also cases where a hypo litter produces some reduced, high color animals and people mistakenly label them as hypo/salmon.

Point is, I don't think most of these people are deliberatly misrepresenting their animals.

Best way, in my opninion, is to simply ask nicely:

Hello, do you suggest these are genetic codominant hypo/salmon boas? or are you describing their color or appearance?
Either way, nice snake!
Thanks much, so and so..

I've scored real hypos by asking someone what they meant by a 'rose colored normal boa' .. lol
it can work both ways.

thanks and take care,

Joe Rollo - BciJoe
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Journal of Heredity-May 2000-(Lengthy!-11 page PDF downloadable)-R.N. Ihle, G.W. Schuett, and K.A. Hughes

Pastel Boa History-Jeff Ronne-April 20th, 2003

History of Hypos in the U.S.-Jeff Ronne-Feb. 21, 2002
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Is the Pastel trait is not a genetic one but originated through year's of selective Breeding for Color,were as the Hypo's is a co=dom trait.
Have A Good One ! !
Kenneth

Take your best guess. Is she a hypo or a pastel?

Have fun.

Kathy

I say it is a pastel....let me know. Andy

She is from a salmon to salmon breeding and was called a "very nice pastel" by Mr.Ronne himself in a post on his forum.

I'm not sure what she is other that really cool looking.
Part of her tail looks hypo because of the lack of black on the sides but the rest of her doesn't look "hypo". I guess I'll just have to raise her up and find her a boyfriend.

I would most deffinitly breed both of those. They look great. I guess the only way to find out what's going on is start breeding them. Thanks Andy

Im thinking its a hypo/salmon.

Here is a female.....what is she???

Here is a side shot.

>>Here is a side shot.
>>

Sorry...just had to; it's one of those days! She's NICE! I'll give you my addy and you can send her to me for closer inspection or re-homing here...LOL J/K...very nice animal!!
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Thanks Andy

They mean two different things. A salmon is a co-dom genetic trait. Hypomelanism can be co-dom, simple recessive, polygenic, somatic, etc. Put it this way, a Salmon Boa is a combination of a couple different traits that also includes Hypomelanism, call a Salmon Boa a Salmon Boa, and a "Hypo" appearing Boa a Hypo. Eliminates the confusion doesn't it?

Journal of Heredity-May 2000-(Lengthy!-11 page PDF downloadable)-R.N. Ihle, G.W. Schuett, and K.A. Hughes

Pastel Boa History-Jeff Ronne-April 20th, 2003

History of Hypos in the U.S.-Jeff Ronne-Feb. 21, 2002
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Rich Ihle called is blood line hypo(melanistic )(in my opinion a crossbreed with the sabogae from the islands on the coast of Panama), it means a reduction of black.Jeff Ronne also have for his pastel's a definition with a reduction of black.In the 2 cases different degrees in the reduction of black, so ?
That's only words, genetic with the associated caracteristics are just important.
Is it because R.Ihle called is blood line Hypo that a boa bloodline with a significant and genetic reduction of black is not a hypo ? No !
Some pastels bloodlines can have less black than the ""hypos ""!
Some blood lines that will come out soon and will be more hypo or pastel than the one on we talk about !
Alain.

hypo

- Hy"po- [Gr. ? under, beneath; akin to L. sub. See Sub-.] 1. A prefix signifying a less quantity, or a low state or degree, of that denoted by the word with which it is joined, or position under or beneath. Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

hypo- or hyp-
pref.

1. Below; beneath; under: hypochondriac.
2. Less than normal; deficient: hypofunction. The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary
Copyright © 2002, 2001, 1995 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.

mel·a·nism
n.

Dark coloration of the skin, hair, fur, or feathers because of a high concentration of melanin. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

melanistic

Mel`a*nis"tic, a. Affected with melanism; of the nature of melanism. Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

Hence, the term "hypomelanistic" lends itself to relative interpretation, depending on your perception of "reduced", "deficient", or "beneath normal" quantities of melanin. My perception of hypomelanistic may be quite different from yours, but most can agree that when two animals in dispute are placed side by side, it's not difficult to detect "normal" from "hypomelanistic". I personally consider a "hypo" to be a mixture of complete or nearly complete absence of melanin, with the possible exception of a faint trace of melanin surrounding the tail blotches posterior to the cloaca AND because of this lack of melanin, a pronounced presentation of erythrism. Just one man's opinion!

er·y·thrism
noun

a condition marked by exceptional prevalence of red pigmentation (as in skin or hair) —er·y·thris·tic /"er-&-'thris-tik/ also er·y·thris·mal /-'thriz-m&l/ adjective Merriam-Webster Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

erythrism

E*ryth"rism, n. [Gr. 'eryqro`s red: cf. F. ['e]rythrisme.] (Zo["o]l.) A condition of excessive redness. Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

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Ok, from top to bottom, then:

hypo
pastel (or a really bad hypo...no offense)
hypo
hypo
pastel
pastel

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Now if all the shots are of the same snake (and I dont believe they are?) then thats not a hypo. But this picture looks like a very nice hypo to me. It has the faded tail patter, and looks to have no black on a few of the upper tail saddles.
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Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
402-614-6641

"I am the Lizard King, I can do anything" - Jim Morrison

Hypo. Produced by me from a supersalmon X normal pairing. This boa is a sibling to the hypo posted below.

Ok, as you can tell I don't use the forum much. Here is the answer to all the photos posted.

...The first photo is a hypo, sibling to the second photo.
...The second photo is a hypo, just a different look.
...The third photo is a supersalmon or dominant hypo. I know this because he proved out when the litter that the first two hypos came from was born.
...The fourth photo, pastel. Now this is not a proven bloodline yet, however she does portray the characteristics of a pastel.
...The fifth photo, just a pretty nice normal from Leticia.
...The sixth photo, that is the same boa that is in the fifth photo.

I am sure there are alot of people passing off boas for what they are not. However I would guess there are ALOT more people who do not know how to properly identify a boa. This is understandable because no two boas are the same and there is a huge variety out there that will easily leave most people confused. Finally this is a photo of a jungle boa. You might not believe me if I didn't have the papers to prove it. Thanks everyone!