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Getting 2 beardie babies...

celeste Sep 22, 2004 09:59 AM

Hi

I'm new, and I don't have much experience with lizards. I had an iguana for a long time, but it was years ago. I recently purchased 2 Bearded Dragon hatchlings from Palm Beach Dragons and I was hoping for any and all tips or secrets you all could give about supplies, caring for them, housing, etc. The female was born 6/6 and the male was born 7/26. I have a 55-gallon aquarium to house them both in until November when I will be getting a separate set up for the female.

I'd love to hear about your experiences with Palm Beach Dragons and see pics of dragons that you may have gotten from there as well. (www.palmbeachdragons.com)

Thanks!
Melissa

Replies (17)

Dedalus Sep 22, 2004 10:38 AM

Tip Number ONE

BUY EVERYTHING YOU CAN FROM A HARDWARE STORE (Home Depot, Lowes, whatever) you'll save hundreds. EX People speak of these Mercury Vapour Bulbs for UV/heat they cost 40-60 bucks. Goto Home Depot and buy a metal halide bulb, it's the same bulb but it costs about 15 bucks. Shop clamp lights work great for dome lights I bought mine at walmart for 6.99 each rather than 29.99 at the local petstore. Indoor/Outdoor digital thermometer 10 bucks, or you can spend 30 on a temp gun, choice is yours.

All I can say is don't use sand until they are atleast a year old. I would avoid it even then but that's me. Shelf liner or astroturf, maybe even vinyl flooring if you have some lying around. Use paper towels for the first bit so you can monitor the poops easily.

Basking temps around 115 - 120 for younger dragons. Some people might say that's to high but they will use it. I personally have a basking temp of 130 for my 7month old, she loves it. Make sure your night time temps stay between 70 and 75 (normal room temp so it's usually pretty easy).

Anything specific you want to know just ask.
-----
The universe is vast and we are so small.
There is only one thing we can truly control.
Whether we are good or evil.
__________________________________________
1.0.0 Tangerine Albino Leopard Gecko
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons

celeste Sep 22, 2004 10:48 AM

I'm getting the rest of the supplies tomorrow, so your tip was a big help. If you have any acutal brand names, please give them! Will the metal halide bulb from Home depot be enough for UVA/UVB and a heat source for basking? Would I need two of them for a 55-gallon tank and 2 babies? I'll look for the shop clamp lights too - I assume these are the fixtures that the bulb goes in?

Thanks a lot
Melissa

Dedalus Sep 22, 2004 11:02 AM

Uhh Hallogen for my basking bulbs. Yes a metal halide will be good for heat/UVB, im using a 45 watt at 8inches and my temp is 110-115 for my big male. Your temp will vary on how high the light is from your basking spot. If you want take a look at my last post, the first 2 pics are of my 90 gal enclosure.

Yes the clamp light is the actual light fixture.

One bulb should be enough for a 55, I have one for my 90. They need a range of temps. If you want to set up 2 basking sites just make sure there is enough room in the tank for a temperature gradient from the basking spot, we'll say 115 to about 75-80 on the colder side so they can thermal regulate.

Good Luck.
-----
The universe is vast and we are so small.
There is only one thing we can truly control.
Whether we are good or evil.
__________________________________________
1.0.0 Tangerine Albino Leopard Gecko
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons

rjharper Sep 22, 2004 11:02 AM

sorry but metal halide bulbs are not the same as MVB. The glass bulb of the metal halide absorbs any UV so all you have is a bright bulb. mercury vapour bublb use a quartz glass which allows the UV to pass through. only MVBs are designed specifically for UV production.

To get UV you must buy the MVB. Its the one thing you can't skimp on. If you are currently using a metal halide bulb please change it asap as your dragon will not be getting the UV he/she nbeeds.
-----
Ross

0.2 Bearded Dragons (1 Yellow, 1 Chris Allen/Sandfire)

Dedalus Sep 22, 2004 11:11 AM

Any metal halide plant bulb produces UVB. SO I should have stated metal halide plant bulb. Goto any hydroponics store and they all have a UVB output on them, they also sell these plant pulbs in the garden section at my local home depot.
-----
The universe is vast and we are so small.
There is only one thing we can truly control.
Whether we are good or evil.
__________________________________________
1.0.0 Tangerine Albino Leopard Gecko
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons

Dedalus Sep 22, 2004 12:44 PM

If this is not the case than I have 2 happy healthy active dragons that have been raised without UVB other than the sun through the window.
-----
The universe is vast and we are so small.
There is only one thing we can truly control.
Whether we are good or evil.
__________________________________________
1.0.0 Tangerine Albino Leopard Gecko
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons

celeste Sep 22, 2004 01:21 PM

This is what I was going to get for lights:

48" florescent bulb for fixture I already have - like this one: Super UV Reptile Daylight Lamp: 3% UVB and 7% UVA

And a 100-watt red head incandencent for basking.

Live crickets..have the rep cal pellets, herpi-vite and calcium.

Does that sound OK? Anything else you can think of?

I'm really excited and can't wait to get them on Friday.

Dedalus Sep 22, 2004 01:29 PM

Sounds good. Best of luck with your new dragons.

If you need anything else just ask everyone here loves to help.
-----
The universe is vast and we are so small.
There is only one thing we can truly control.
Whether we are good or evil.
__________________________________________
1.0.0 Tangerine Albino Leopard Gecko
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons

celeste Sep 22, 2004 01:49 PM

How do I post pics here? I'd love to show you guys what I'm getting. I think they're gorgeous We're naming the female Lola and the male Kearse. (Yes, we're Eagles fans!)

Thanks again,
Melissa

Dedalus Sep 22, 2004 01:55 PM

Theres an FAQ section on the forums main page. I'd suggest ready through that. You'll also need to upload the pics using the photo gallery. If your animals are on the net already it's a better idea to just give us a link so your not infringing on copyrights or whatnot.
-----
The universe is vast and we are so small.
There is only one thing we can truly control.
Whether we are good or evil.
__________________________________________
1.0.0 Tangerine Albino Leopard Gecko
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons

celeste Sep 22, 2004 02:07 PM

I think I got it Thanks!

Joel R Sep 23, 2004 10:52 AM

Window glass also filters the UVB.
-----
Joel R

Coming some day.
www.SpikesAndScales.com

Dedalus Sep 23, 2004 12:48 PM

I know this. I was simply stating that if a metal halide light does not put off any UVB as suggested earlier then my dragons have all been raised with absolutely no UVB. The light obviously does put off UVB or according to everyone my dragons would be dead.
-----
The universe is vast and we are so small.
There is only one thing we can truly control.
Whether we are good or evil.
__________________________________________
1.0.0 Tangerine Albino Leopard Gecko
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons

AtelerixMel Sep 23, 2004 08:35 AM

The other guy is right. UV does not pass through glass, or at least, very little does. So if your bulb is made of glass, it may very well be producing UV, but it's not getting out to your dragons. Also, since your windows are made of glass, unless they are open the beardies are not getting UV from there either.
-----
~Melissa

Dedalus Sep 23, 2004 12:51 PM

If you can raise plants that require UVB for photosynthesis under nothing but metal halide lights the bulb obviously puts off UVB. If this UVB is not reaching my dragons then I have a pair of 2 year olds that are healthy, happy, active, and vibrant raised with no UVB other than what they get when I bring them outside during the summer. I live in Canada so our summer is pretty short as well.
-----
The universe is vast and we are so small.
There is only one thing we can truly control.
Whether we are good or evil.
__________________________________________
1.0.0 Tangerine Albino Leopard Gecko
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons

kephy Sep 23, 2004 06:30 PM

It is true that metal halides produce UVB, but it is significantly less than a reptile MVB, it's even less than a UVB fluorescent tube.

Tests have been done on these products, these are facts.

uvheat.com/measure.html
"Bulb Type / Distance (ft)/ UVA / UVB

Reptisin 5.0 / 1 / 23 / 10
Vitalite / 1 / 6 / 1.6
Blacklight / 1 / 153 / 2.6
Metal Halide (100w)/ 1 / 40 / 1.9
Lumichrome / 1 / 4 / 0.9
Cool White / 1 / 2 / 0.1"

www.anapsid.org/liteheat.html
"Problems with Metal Halide Products
Metal halide products also produce visible light and ultraviolet A and B. However, they produce an excessive amount of UVA, which can cause skin and other cancers. Metal halides produce less UVB - less than Zoo Med's reptile and iguana UVB-producing fluorescents. Because of the danger to humans, many of these products contain shields which filter out the UVA and UVB...so much so that they can end up producing too little UVB for use with reptiles.

UVB (Ultraviolet B) and UVA (Ultraviolet A)
The only lights that can safely provide these two critical wavelengths to your diurnal reptiles are the UVB/A producing fluorescents made for the reptile pet trade. "

----------------------------------

It should also be noted that what plants use for photosynthesis is *not* UVB, it's the intensity and color of the light spectrum. Think about it, if UVB was that important for plants, why are greenhouses so successful? After all, glass filters out the UVB. Greenhouses work because the glass does not alter the visible spectrum of light.

The reason metal halide lights are recommended for plants is because they produce an abundance of light in the visible color spectrums that promote plant growth, very similar to the natural colors of sunlight. In fact most metal halides use shields specifically to reduce the UVA and UVB output. Even plant people will tell you that to get more UVB for certain plants you should upgrade to a reptile light because the UVB output is much greater.

You'll notice in the following sources explaining the benefits of metal halide lighting for plants, UVB is not once mentioned as a factor.

www.futuregarden.com/lighting/choosing_grow_lights.html
"A primer on photosynthesis
Plants have the unique ability to manufacture their own food. In the process known as photosynthesis, chlorophyll uses light energy to convert carbon dioxide from the air and water from the ground into food sugar. When these elements abound in a perfect environment, the production of food is limited only by factors that effect photosynthesis, being the intensity, color and duration of the daily light the plant receives."

homeharvest.com/whichgrowlightisrightforme.htm
"Metal halide is a highly efficient light source capable of delivering a white light in the range of 2700 to 5500 Kelvin degrees with typical Color Rendering Index (CRI) ratings in the mid-60's to mid-70's. Some lamp chemistries even obtain CRI's in the 80s. The CRI is an index that measures how closely an artificial light source matches the natural colors of sunlight, with 100 being a perfect score. In contrast, high pressure sodium lamps yield yellow lighting (2200K) and have a very poor color rendering index of 22.

By varying the blend of chemicals in the arc tube, metal halide engineers are able to alter the characteristics of the light output. This flexibility in design makes metal halide so versatile.

White light is a very important attribute of metal halide technology, because it is the closest to the natural sunlight that people prefer. Metal halide lamps are widely used where color rendering is important such as stadiums, manufacturing plants, malls, and supermarkets.

For horticultural purposes, metal halides tend to produce a shorter, more compact plant habit that more closely resembles plants grown outdoors. A plants appearance growing under most metal halide lamps is almost identical to those growing outside, which makes it the preferred lamp for use in living areas. Horticultural metal halide lamps have increased red spectrum added for increased fruiting and flowering without sacrificing plant appearance.
"

www.living-learning.com/faq/faqhid.htm
"Metal Halide -These bulbs are high in blue green spectrum (which is needed to promote vegetative growth), with some red/ orange spectrum (needed to promote flowering). These lights lamps are used primarily ro promote stocky, lush vegetative growth."

-----------------------------------

I guess you're lucky that your beardies are doing great, I mean they are maybe getting a little UVB from the light, and if you're supplimenting their diets that would have something to do with it too, but I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone go the cheap route on this one. For only $10-20 more you can get a bulb that outputs a much more suitable amount of UVB for your reptiles.
-----
Amanda
------------
2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
1.0 pictus gecko (Nicodemus)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
0.0.1 tarantula (Calcifer)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

Dedalus Sep 24, 2004 09:33 AM

I never said it was the same ammount of UVB, I just said it was UVB. I know about light intensity I grow all my dragon food via hydroponics. My dragons are supplemented with calcium and d3 every 2 days. I rasied 3 siblings last year one with no UVB what so ever, one with metal halide, and one with an MVB bulb. All dragons grew at the same rate, all displayed the same intensity of color, all were happy active and healthy. The only difference was I spent about 150 dollars less on lighting and then spent that money to build a bigger enclousure and provide higher quality food.
-----
The universe is vast and we are so small.
There is only one thing we can truly control.
Whether we are good or evil.
__________________________________________
1.0.0 Tangerine Albino Leopard Gecko
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons

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