Reptile & Amphibian Forums

well guys, I'm quite proficient at probing snakes now, but am still having a hard time reading the result. I know that males should prob. a lot deeper than females. But then I have some snakes that I'm fairly sure are females that are probing deeper than I would expect.

ok, a few months ago, I had a het pied male bp and an adult unknown bp together for a little while, during that time, i witnessed them mating. definate penitration. But just today I went ahead and probed the unknown snake (which I now assumed was a female) and I had a 10 scale probe depth. what's going on, if they're both males, is there any chance there's some gayness going on?

What are the absolute scale dept boundaries for male and female bps? are there any tricks you guys how can you be so sure of the sex of the bp, when it probs 5 to 7 scales in the middle of the range?

Thanks in advance

pain isn't it......

I have probed a good many snakes...and the sad part is....alot ...over half even..will probe 6 or 7 sub-caudals deep.....are they male thet are shallow? or females that are deed?...all sizes of animals too.....

I pop babies .....so i know what I got...I see it.......

probing....when in doubt..I use other methods.....like you did actually...throw in a female or male and see what happens.....

I just throw any balls in with my BIG old male..he'll tell me in 20 seconds what it is.....either holds it down or shoves it against the wall and procedes to beat it up......

........

......yes..I have seen 2 males copulate....adult 4 foot corns....both were fathers of hundred babies and more...at a show..the one was coppin' the other....guy bought it ......I assured him it was a BIG male......another time..the BIG old male I got....before I aquired him....I witnessed him coppin' a 6 foot male burm at the friend's home where I got it......burm was too young to know what hit him..male didn't care..

USUALLY NO..male balls will fight...even with biting......

........good luck...keep practicing....

hopefully another opinion will show up here...

you want the best answer?...email Dave Barker at VPI International.then write his thought here please....LOL

JY
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yep
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well, it is good to know that someone else has been confused! I will email barker...

...pretty much what jyohe said, but maybe a skosh bit more technically,lol! Homosexuality is surprisingly common in vertebrate species. Larger more experienced males rarely get confused but it's common in younger less experienced males. And then of course there's HERMAPHRODITES (ie the Klinefelters's, the Turner Syndromes, etc.). To my knowledge never confirmed but surely possible in herps, particularly with parthenogenesis being increasingly recognised in herps.

Yes those 5-7 count specimens can be confusing, but with larger specimens the males will usually be lighter in build and have relatively longer tails but it's still a tough call.

Scott J. Michaels DVM

I would consider androgen insensitivity and kleinfelters or even 5-alfa reductase more hermaphroditic but Turners syndrom is an X0 or has a twisted X. These are girls (no Y's) and are sometimes capable of having children especially with modern technology. These would just be girls if they have no Y. However, there are rare cases where a male can have turners but I am unsure of the kareotype (sp). Being in the medical field maybe you can shed some light on that.

Pop for sperm plugs in a mature animal, and if you get sperm plugs, it's a boy. I have a male that only probes 5-6 subcaudals, but most males will go 8-10 easily. Females usually probe to only 2-3 subcaudals.

Like everybody else said, males will breed other males. I've had a large male Suphan cobra try to copulate my hand while I was tailing it for cage maintenance, and no I didn't wait for the droopies to pop out...LOL
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Chad Bachman

When Jyohe says something, it is almost always 100% correct (he's been there & done that).

When it comes to breeding Balls, Jyohe has one of, if not the best breeding results. This year he had only one female that was "maybe ready" (20 month old) not produce.
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Chad Bachman