Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is it possible to cross breed cubans and rhinos? If so, does any one have a picture? Just curious.

why do you want to do such stupid things ?
It is terrible enough to breed lewisi/caymanensis hybrids !
peter

Geez, relax. He was just asking a question. I don't think he said he wanted to breed them.

Carole

despite the fact that you and undoubtedly many others find hybridization to be unethical, I bet you would get healthy, genetically diverse offspring from doing so. I wouldn't be suprised if many of the cyclura in this trade are inbred because of the limited number of founding stock. Although it is nice to have and breed "pure" specimens, you might be sacrificing health in turn for purity. At least you know that you are definetly pairing up two unrelated animals when you hybridize. What I have said applies to dogs at least(muts are known to be more robust). Why would it be stupid to do this(responsibly of course)? The purpose of owning a cyclura and most other captive animals is to recieve enjoyment from taking care of them. I doubt you are going to be releasing any back in to the wild any time soon. Very few people have to worry about keeping the bloodlines pure anyway(such as captive breeding programs that are trying to restore wild populations).I think that hybridized animals can be a good option for the hobbiest who wants to keep an almost garunteed healthy animal as a pet. If a breeder can trace his stock back, then a purebred specimen is a fine option also.

Show me one pure reptile that is weaker or has suffered from being inbred. Reptiles are not mammals. Mammals are affected "more" and "sooner" from inbreeding than reptiles. All those designer morphs of lizards and snakes are products of inbreeding and no one is complaining of lizards genetically passing "hip displasia" or "like" problems from one generation to another. A large number of reptiles are surviving with 25 or less total population numbers for many generations now and are genetically doing fine. If I have to choice to inbreed or not to inbreed, I choose not to, but not for the reasons you think are valid and positively never two different species or subspecies. I think hybridizing cyclura is a horrible idea and would never do it. I would however, with a lewisii hybrid, try to out breed the caymanensis or nubila by breeding all offspring in succession with a pure lewisi parent.

Rhino crossed with a Cuban? Maybe it would look like a pinguis? Cool! Too bad their breeding periods are off, and I think my rhino is partial to his own kind, I think he would rather eat my nubilas face than have an affair with her. My guess is that they will not breed to each other, if they would, it would have been done already. KB

I have the same opinion as Mark, we should be proud for our pure animals. Why are all the zoos keeping pure lewisi ? It would be much easier for them to release hybrids on Grand Cayman to guarantee that the population will survive in the wild. But that is not the same. It is very important to save the genetical purity of every specie.
Maybe you can breed an hybrid cornutaXnubila that looks like a pinguis or a ricordii, but it will never be the same as a pure one. All of the species have its own beauty and we never should mix them with other species, we are no "frankensteins" !
bye peter

Are you trying to tell me that that the health and genetic diversity of "designer lizards" can rival that of the offspring of a strong wild unrelated pair(who are the products of natural selection)? I think not. Just as I have already mentioned, it is doubtful that you or anyone else on this forum(hobbyists) are going to be releasing any cyclura back into the wild for restoration efforts. It is the job of zoos and special organizations to keep bloodlines pure. If this is true, then the animals that hobbyists own should be treated as pets. To create an optimally healthy pet, hybridization is a fine option. After all, health should take priority over purity in pets. Although the effects of inbreeding may be "less evident" and "not as noticable" "at first" as in mammals, the evidence is there none the less. Dana Pennebaker said that many bearded dragons have been hatching out under-sized(4 instead of 7 inches), especially the sandfiremorphs(which are heavily inbred). Although not a rule, small size in offspring is often related directly to the health of the parents and/or the mismatching that has taken place in breeding them. If it is acceptable to create designer lizards(and pure ones of rare species, of which there is limited stock available) at the expense of there own health, then I can find no reason why a hobbyist shouldn't hybrize animals(the offspring being used solely as pets) in order to create the fittest offspring that he can create. You can say that you do not practice inbreeding, but how far back can you trace your breeding stock? Do you have a "family tree" or something? I doubt it.

several of these points are respectable, I always think of how these insular species developed like the Esteban chucks,and Fiji iggys, I have heard a couple ideas on how Brachylophus made it out there, the latest one I have heard is that they probably came from Indonesia instead of South America. Anyway, to my point, what are the chances of one iguana taking a ride overseas to a small island? I bet they are much better than two Iguanas taking that ride at the same time. So maybe a gravid female made it, How many thousands of years could it be until new compatable gentitics make the same trip. To me, I think this situation probably happened alot, I guess the genetic drift was good enough as the populations grew. Maybe the lack of genetic diversity pushes the evolution?So lets inbreed and see what we get!(that was a joke ) There, now hows that for post soccer jabber. KB

If anything, wouldn't a lack of genetic diversity be a hinderance towards evolution because of the fewer possible combinations of traits available to the population as a whole?

I don't totally disagree but I thought it was believed that random mutation is the primary factor in evolution. So does a healthier gene pool increase the chance of mutation? I guess it might increase the populations survival (possibly), allowing more mutations in the long run,or could a stagnit geen pool influence mutations? KB

dfdjghj

I think its been tried, planned and unplanned. I dont think it works. I remember reading this question before on this or another forum.