Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, I work in a pet store as the reptile manager. some months back we got in a baby CB Nosy Be panther chameleon. I set it up as I had set up all of our past chameleons, with the proper ventilation, humidity, temperatures, etc. He is in a medium-sized screened reptile cage with a lot of branches and artificial plants. The substrate is paper towels I replace twice a week. He is misted several times daily and has a mercury vapor bulb that allows him a variety of heat spots but at the same time isn't hot enough to stress him out. He normally eats voraciously on calcium and vitamim/mineral dusted insects daily.

I have found that in the past week or so he has become slightly less active. He still eats, but only when he gets his eyes open, which doesn't seem to be that often anymore. I took this as a very bad sign but i just cannot seem to find a reason as to why he is like this. when I open the cage he still hisses and when I go to pick him up he scrambles away, so he still has the energy, but otherwise he climbs awkwardly and closes his eyes a lot. I made up some electrolyte-spiked water for him and dripped it over his head and he drank some, as well as ate some wax worms and crickets i had in my hand. But he stopped eating in his cage otherwise.

Can anyone help me here? I've never had this problem with a panther before, or any chameleon for that matter. I'd appreciate any response, but one from an expert or breeder is preferred. thank you.

Joe
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2.2 Solomen Island ground boas
0.1 Solomen Island tree boa
1.0 green tree python
1.0 jungle carpet python
1.0 coastal carpet python
1.0 Boa constrictor imperator
0.1 Borneo short-tailed (blood) python
...and as always a plethora of rescues awaiting new homes

What would you gauge his daily water intake to be?
You mentioned he is misted multiple times daily,
often times just misting the cage is not enough.
Chameleons can drink from 5 to 60 minutes in one sitting,
and they should have access to a dripping water source all day long. The most common problem with captive chameleons is renal failure from dehydration. There are a lot of other possible explainations,.. temperature, parasites(i doubt this because he's captive bred.)
I would try getting him to drink as much as possible on a daily basis, keep the ambient cage temps at around 72-75 with a
warm basking light, and exposing him to some natural sunlight for a few hours daily. Sunlight can really energize listless chams.
I would also go easy on the suplmts., they can o.d.
on these if used too often. Some good gutloaded insects
and lightly dusting a few times a week should be ok.
gw

u didnt mention a UVA/B Bulb, do u have one?

this could attain to the ackward climbing (MBD)

do u gut-load ur insects?

du u mist 6-7 times a day?

do any other animals come near him alot?

is his whole cage cleaned regularily?

does he have a drip system?

there are thousands more questions to ask but take care of these if u havnt already

One thing that can help boost his recovery from whatever the problem is is to raise his basking spot a few deg. My panther had a URI when i got her as a baby, and i raise her basking spot to 95-100*F. I found this to help quite a bit. Just watch it doesn't got much over 100, if at all, and that it is only one isolated spot. The rest of the cage should be 78-80 with a small cooler spot if possible, and if there is more than one basking spot keep them around 85. If not stick to the one high one and watch the ambient temps are maintained. Try and watch how low the humidity gets between mistings. If it drops too low for too long that could be the problem with his eyes. You mentioned not being able to handle him, so if you can listen to his breathing see if you can watch him for a few min. If he seems to be breathin heavily it could be a URI problem. That would be poss caused if you mist too much and the humidity isn't alowed to drop in between. That is the most advice i can give, based on my experience.

Thanks. Initially, when I set up his enclosure, I measured the temperatures in various locations so as to create a proper temperature gradient. I'll be at work in about an hour so I'll make sure to double check the figures. I have really looked over him and have not seen any signs that would indicate a URI, his breathing is good, no wheezing or hissing. He has a strong grip and runs fast when he wants to (as during the few minutes I checked him out, when I put him back in the cage he RAN in!). And he still tries to get away when I go in to check him out. His colors are absolutely stunning. He looks like a book cover. Anyway, I really appreciate the info. If only some of the snake forums had as nice of people as this one does. Thank you, I will keep you updated.

Joe
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2.2 Solomen Island ground boas
0.1 Solomen Island tree boa
1.0 green tree python
1.0 jungle carpet python
1.0 coastal carpet python
1.0 Boa constrictor imperator
0.1 Borneo short-tailed (blood) python
...and as always a plethora of rescues awaiting new homes

Hmm,

You mentioned that his colors are stunning...are they stunning constantly? If so he is stressed by something outside the cage possibly. If he feels he can't retreat out of sight he may just shut out the big strange world around him and not maintain himself. What about taking him off display and put him into a quiet location for a while with more plant cover? It might help him relax and take an interest in food and water. Also, don't overwhelm him with many feeders at once. Sometimes babies get so overwhelmed by watching all the movement they just sit and stare.

I should have specified- his colors get very bright when i go to his cage and check on him. I had to handle him several times in the past few days in order to clean the cage and to generally check his health.

As much as I'd love to take him off of display, I'm afraid that's not going to happen. I just don't have the space anywhere. The good thing is, he's way up high above human head level, so most people see him but aren't able to tap on the screen (I firmly believe tapping on tanks or cages for the purpose of inciting stress to the animal is human nature) as they do with some of the other reptiles.

Well, time for an update. I set up a dripper over his cage and added some electrolytes to it (can't hurt). It drips down some silk plants and into a plastic bowl on the bottom. Immediately he went over by the water and tried to eat the water drops as if they were crickets. After a minute he realized it wasn't food, and actually lapped the water a few times. But then he turned around and went back to climbing all over the top of the cage (he's been doing that a lot lately). I checked on him every hald hour or so and a few times he was near the water. Since I was busy I wasn't able to actually see him drinking other than the first time. I was surprised as to how fast that water dish needed to be emptied. The dripping mode was pretty low, and yet four times in nine hours it needed refilling. Normal? Remember, snake guy here...

I am going to offer food today. In response to the last person that replied, I never overwhelm him with crickets. I understand the effects that can have on certain reptiles. And I wouldn't call the chameleon a baby, Id say he's a young adult (we've had him for about 6 to 8 months).

Again, thanks for the help. I'm really hoping I can pull him through soon. He still appears to be healthy, and his eyes are open slightly more than they were the previous few days. These things are some of the reasons veileds are so much more popular- the seem to withstand nearly anything.

again, I will keep you posted.

Thanks again,
Joe
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2.2 Solomen Island ground boas
0.1 Solomen Island tree boa
1.0 green tree python
1.0 jungle carpet python
1.0 coastal carpet python
1.0 Boa constrictor imperator
0.1 Borneo short-tailed (blood) python
...and as always a plethora of rescues awaiting new homes

The dripper doesn't have to run constantly. i would fill it up at open, then a few hours before close. He will get used to drinking twice a day. As far as making sure he's hydrated, just check his urates. If they are nice and white he's fine.
And carlton is right about the feeders. when mine was a baby she'd just watch them all in amazement..i had to feed just a few at a time. Try some various things too..i can't remember if i mentioned that. He may take a liking to small mealworms or something other than crix.

It sounds like you are on the right track. Remember all animals have some things in common with people. We are all individuals as our animals are also. Some of us prefer to sip all day while other slam back a bottle of water/beer, etc. Some snack all day while other pig out. Each and everyone of my reptiles do their own thing especially my chams. I think the increased hydration and a reduction in the vita/min supplements are good. Too much of anything can be bad. Too many vitamins/minerals in humans just like many animals can cause headaches, fatigue, light sensitivity, etc.

Good luck,
Mike
Too many reps and climbing...

It's really great to get expert info from you guys. In advance, I want to thank you for your information.

The chameleon does not have a drip system. I suppose this is a major problem. ASAP tomorrow I will install one that will drip continuously during the day. I do mist a lot but I somehow neglected to realize the importance of a dripper.

As far as vitamins and mineral supplements, most of the lizards in the store only get dusted food once a week. Calcium is incorporated several times a week, but it depends on the animal.

And yes, he does have a UVB lamp, it is a 5.0 UV heat/mercury vapor bulb which is on from 10 am to about 9 pm.

I am more of a snake guy myself, and even though I have kept lizards and other herps, sometimes I stumble a bit when keeping them (especially when I have to deal with scores of them where I work).

you guys are great. thank you so much. i will definately utilize the information you have given me. I'll keep you posted.

Joe
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2.2 Solomen Island ground boas
0.1 Solomen Island tree boa
1.0 green tree python
1.0 jungle carpet python
1.0 coastal carpet python
1.0 Boa constrictor imperator
0.1 Borneo short-tailed (blood) python
...and as always a plethora of rescues awaiting new homes